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Best ever ODI player?
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Poll Question: Who is the best ever ODI player?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
5 [5.49%]
4 [4.40%]
2 [2.20%]
29 [31.87%]
11 [12.09%]
3 [3.30%]
11 [12.09%]
23 [25.27%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [3.30%]
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JP Barnes View Drop Down
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Joined: 20 August 2008
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Posts: 5 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JP Barnes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Best ever ODI player?
    Posted: 20 August 2008 at 12:56pm
I would like to put in a vote for Andrew Symonds.
 
The complete one day package.
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crapbag View Drop Down
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crapbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2008 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by JP Barnes

I would like to put in a vote for Andrew Symonds.The complete one day package.
Care to explain how Symonds' package is much complete than that of Imran's,Viv's or Jayasuriya's?
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BruceDidgeridoo View Drop Down
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Posts: 16 		Post Options Post Options   Quote BruceDidgeridoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2008 at 7:39pm
JP Barnes, mate, mate

you'll find no bigger supporter of Symmo than me

but this topic is called "best ever one day player". Symmo hasn't earned that tag, Bevo is the man.
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crapbag View Drop Down
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crapbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2008 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by BruceDidgeridoo

JP Barnes, mate, mateyou'll find no bigger supporter of Symmo than mebut this topic is called "best ever one day player". Symmo hasn't earned that tag, Bevo is the man.
As I know Bevan never capatined the side. Either lacked opportunity or was totally inept at it.
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spin wizard View Drop Down
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Posts: 9453 		Post Options Post Options   Quote spin wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2008 at 9:32pm
Between Symonds and Bevan, I'd rather Symonds.  A belligerent batsmen who can take it away from the opposition in no time, Bevan hardly ever did that more than bail the Aussies from embarrassment.  Symonds can put in overs and he's a top class fieldsman, in the inner circle and on the boundary.
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Posts: 1809 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bladescape Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2008 at 1:51am
Tendulkar is the better ODI player then either of those,as proven by the poll.
You know, I'm trying to decide whether to change my siggy or not...
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zuhair_abbasi View Drop Down
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Posts: 6202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zuhair_abbasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2008 at 5:55am
It is a discussion forum mate, we aren't here to prove things by polls of this magnitude. Tendulkar undoubtedly will be there among the top players. But there are other strong candidates as well. Number of votes Viv Richards has on this poll by no means mean that he was a lesser player than Jaysauria or Bevan etc
http://thecricketinsight.blogspot.com/
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bladescape View Drop Down
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Posts: 1809 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bladescape Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2008 at 6:35am
I will conceed that the poll doesn't show everything,but I stil think Tendulkar is the best out of the people on the poll.
You know, I'm trying to decide whether to change my siggy or not...
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zuhair_abbasi View Drop Down
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Posts: 6202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zuhair_abbasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2008 at 6:40am
Wonder how these moodern day players who keep on piling runs, would have played in that era of quality bowling in 80s till mid 90s. Almost everybody would have had more reasonable averages than wat they have now. There is a nice piece of work on cricinfo today where they have discussed the adjusted averages based on the quality of bowling faced. But that is only been done for test matches so far. Any such work on one dayers might just give a better idea.
http://thecricketinsight.blogspot.com/
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crapbag View Drop Down
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crapbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2008 at 5:34pm
I did some research on this. I understood it as following.

a. The batsman score quicker in ODIs now. SR of 77 from Ranatunga is acutally higer than that of Jayawardane, because the latter played in an era of slow scoring.

b. Similarly, Average for batsmen and bowlers, SR and ER of the bowlers are also have changed with time.

c. To calculate the adjusted stat, the players stats were compared to that of all players that played during the same time period.

Results appeared as following
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crapbag View Drop Down
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crapbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2008 at 5:48pm

Pos Player

Act

Adj

1 MG Bevan (Aus) 53.44 52.97
2 MEK Hussey (Aus) 54.71 52.77
3 Zaheer Abbas (Pak) 47.84 51.36
4 IVA Richards (WI) 47.21 49.94
5 CG Greenidge (WI) 44.11 46.66
6 DM Jones (Aus) 44.62 46.04
7 KP Pietersen (Eng/ICC) 46.94 45.19
8 GS Chappell (Aus) 40.18 43.60
9 MS Dhoni (India) 45.05 43.37
10 Javed Miandad (Pak) 41.29 43.22
11 JH Kallis (ICC/SA) 43.86 42.96
12 DL Haynes (WI) 40.98 42.81
13 ML Hayden (Aus) 43.01 42.38
14 SR Tendulkar (India) 42.35 42.06
15 RT Ponting (Aus) 42.29 41.51
16 AJ Lamb (Eng) 39.53 41.12
17 MJ Clarke (Aus) 42.51 41.08
18 GR Marsh (Aus) 39.79 41.05
19 RR Sarwan (WI) 42.23 41.05
20 HH Dippenaar (SA) 41.91 40.97



Edited by crapbag - 01 September 2008 at 5:53pm
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crapbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2008 at 5:57pm

Adjusted Strike Rates

Pos Player

Act

Adj

1 Shahid Afridi (ICC/Pak) 107.0 103.4
2 N Kapil Dev (India) 93.79 100.1
3 IVA Richards (WI) 90.14 98.10
4 Zaheer Abbas (Pak) 85.04 94.75
5 V Sehwag (ICC/India) 96.59 92.55
6 AC Gilchrist (Aus) 95.65 92.46
7 A Symonds (Aus) 93.69 90.04
8 L Klusener (SA) 91.14 89.15
9 Wasim Akram (Pak) 87.60 89.14
10 ST Jayasuriya (SL) 89.85 88.68
11 IT Botham (Eng) 79.44 85.89
12 GS Chappell (Aus) 75.70 85.80
13 MS Dhoni (India) 89.87 84.63
14 SR Tendulkar (India) 84.16 83.06
15 A Flintoff (Eng/ICC) 86.08 82.72
16 CL Cairns (NZ) 83.35 82.27
17 KP Pietersen (Eng/ICC) 87.05 81.98
18 DI Gower (Eng) 75.15 80.98
19 Ijaz Ahmed (Pak) 79.32 80.96
20 PA de Silva (SL) 79.55 80.95
by the way all these stats are based on matches against test class oppositions.
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crapbag View Drop Down
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crapbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2008 at 6:05pm
And here goes the bowlers.
Adjusted Strike rates
1 LS Pascoe (Aus) 29.5 28.5
2 SE Bond (NZ) 28.5 29.0
3 B Lee (Aus) 29.1 29.6
4 Naved-ul-Hasan (Pak) 29.3 29.8
5 NW Bracken (Aus) 29.6 30.1
6 Waqar Younis (Pak) 30.3 30.3
7 Shoaib Akhtar (ICC/Pak) 30.4 30.8
8 MG Johnson (Aus) 30.6 31.3
9 C Pringle (NZ) 32.1 31.8
10 AA Donald (SA) 32.0 32.0
11 M Ntini (ICC/SA) 32.1 32.6
12 Saqlain Mushtaq (Pak) 32.5 32.7
13 DK Lillee (Aus) 34.3 33.0
14 BP Patterson (WI) 33.5 33.0
15 SL Malinga (SL) 32.5 33.2
16 CG Rackemann (Aus) 34.0 33.3
17 S Sreesanth (India) 32.7 33.4
18 MS Kasprowicz (Aus) 33.9 34.2
19 AB Agarkar (India) 33.8 34.2
20 DW Fleming (Aus) 34.3 34.4
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crapbag View Drop Down
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crapbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2008 at 6:08pm
Adjusted Averages
Pos Player

Act

Adj

1 SE Bond (NZ) 20.86 20.0
2 NW Bracken (Aus) 21.50 20.6
3 J Garner (WI) 19.02 20.7
4 B Lee (Aus) 23.05 22.1
5 LS Pascoe (Aus) 20.11 22.2
6 GD McGrath (Aus) 22.80 22.4
7 AA Donald (SA) 22.53 22.5
8 AME Roberts (WI) 20.65 22.9
9 DK Lillee (Aus) 20.54 23.0
10 Saqlain Mushtaq (Pak) 23.55 23.3
11 MG Johnson (Aus) 24.64 23.4
12 MA Holding (WI) 21.43 23.4
13 Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ) 21.50 23.5
14 Shoaib Akhtar (ICC/Pak) 24.31 23.5
15 CG Rackemann (Aus) 22.35 23.6
16 Waqar Younis (Pak) 24.00 24.1
17 M Ntini (ICC/SA) 24.97 24.1
18 C Pringle (NZ) 23.87 24.4
19 M Muralitharan (ICC/SL) 25.09 24.6
20 SM Pollock (ICC/SA) 25.35 24.6


Edited by crapbag - 01 September 2008 at 6:09pm
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crapbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2008 at 6:10pm
Adjusted economy rates
Pos Player Econ AER
1 J Garner (WI) 3.10 3.49
2 CEL Ambrose (WI) 3.53 3.61
3 PS de Villiers (SA) 3.56 3.62
4 SM Pollock (ICC/SA) 3.79 3.65
5 MA Holding (WI) 3.33 3.77
6 Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ) 3.33 3.77
7 GR Larsen (NZ) 3.77 3.84
8 RGD Willis (Eng) 3.32 3.86
9 MD Marshall (WI) 3.55 3.87
10 M Muralitharan (ICC/SL) 3.98 3.87
11 GD McGrath (Aus) 3.98 3.89
12 AME Roberts (WI) 3.41 3.94
13 PR Reiffel (Aus) 3.91 3.95
14 EJ Chatfield (NZ) 3.57 3.95
15 TM Alderman (Aus) 3.65 3.98
16 CA Walsh (WI) 3.85 3.98
17 GF Lawson (Aus) 3.66 4.04
18 RD King (WI) 4.18 4.04
19 DL Vettori (ICC/NZ) 4.22 4.05
20 CR Matthews (SA) 3.96 4.05


Edited by Sledger - 02 September 2008 at 6:13am
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Posts: 15694 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2008 at 6:14am
crapbag posting the stats is okay , but posting them that large is not , cut it out.
Mental disintegration works for me !!
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lalinda_sang View Drop Down
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Posts: 91 		Post Options Post Options   Quote lalinda_sang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2008 at 12:53pm
Best Ever odi player is Sanath Jayasuriya...i dont think anyone could pass his records....over 12000+ runs & 300+ wickets 
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crapbag View Drop Down
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crapbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2008 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by Sledger

crapbag posting the stats is okay , but posting them that large is not , cut it out.
Sledge, what's the browser you are using? it appears small in mine. I am using Opera.

It looks as following in my browser.


If the look is browser dependent, I don't know how to fix the problem.
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Posts: 15694 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2008 at 2:00pm
Sorry about that CB !  I'll be getting a new system very shortly and hopefully will get up to speed with 21st century technology !
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crapbag View Drop Down
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crapbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2008 at 2:52pm
OK, got a new rating going. The enlightment came from few good statisticians from a seperate forum.

I think I have explained adjusted average and adjusted strike rate.

Longetivity Index (LI) - It's easy to average 30 over 20 matches than to do it over 300 matches. There has to be some method to value long careers. over 95% of ODI batsmen have played between 1-197 matches in their career. I took 200 matches as the benchmark. Used a correction factor.

LI = 0.002 * (matches played - 200) + 1 (multiply by 0.002 means divide by 500)

Risk Index (RI) was taken as the product of Adjusted strike rate, Adjusted average and longelivity index. This means that producing an average of 40 with a SR of 60 takes same amount of risk as an average of 30 which is made at SR of 80.

Edited by crapbag - 02 September 2008 at 7:14pm
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crapbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2008 at 2:56pm
Here are top 25 ODI batsmen according to my ratings

Avg - Average, SR - Strike Rate, AA - Adjusted Average, ASR - ADjusted Strike rate, LI - Longetivity Index, RI - Risk Index

The inclusion criteria - more than 500 runs.



Edited by crapbag - 02 September 2008 at 4:04pm
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crapbag View Drop Down
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crapbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2008 at 3:00pm
The surprise ones are Zaheer Abbas, Ganguly, Ranatunga and Dravid. Notable exception is Pietersen, who is at 39th position.
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crapbag View Drop Down
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crapbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2008 at 7:12pm
Soon I will post the bowlers. Thinking of a good method to assess them
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spin wizard View Drop Down
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Posts: 9453 		Post Options Post Options   Quote spin wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2008 at 10:12pm
I'm sure I've seen something like that recently on cricinfo with Sachin Tendulkar top of the table with batting in ODI's.
In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage.
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Posts: 15694 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2008 at 10:26am
Originally posted by crapbag

The surprise ones are Zaheer Abbas....


 Not to me mate - he oozed class and he played in glasses !
Mental disintegration works for me !!
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dips_december View Drop Down
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Posts: 5230 		Post Options Post Options   Quote dips_december Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2008 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by crapbag

The surprise ones are Zaheer Abbas, Ganguly, Ranatunga and Dravid. Notable exception is Pietersen, who is at 39th position.
 
Dravid and Ganguly have 10000+ ODI runs so why should they be in your surprise list? Ganguly had a fine strike rate too and both average 40 over a period of 300+ ODI's which is not a joke.
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crapbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2008 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by dips_december

Originally posted by crapbag

The surprise ones are Zaheer Abbas, Ganguly, Ranatunga and Dravid. Notable exception is Pietersen, who is at 39th position.

 

Dravid and Ganguly have 10000+ ODI runs so why should they be in your surprise list? Ganguly had a fine strike rate too and both average 40 over a period of 300+ ODI's which is not a joke.
I was trying to put foward the fact that how much we tend to forget longetivity when judging players. Jayasuriya vs Sehwag is almost identical in ODIs with SRs and Averages. But most easily forget that Jaya has played about 150 matches more than Sehwag keeping the same performances.

Dravid, Ganguly and Ranatunaga are the same. Some one may say Ranatunga up there is a joke. But to keeping an average of 36.8 (adj) at a SR of 80.8 (adj) over 250 matches is not a joke at all.
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Posts: 91 		Post Options Post Options   Quote lalinda_sang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 September 2008 at 12:53am
Originally posted by crapbag

Here are top 25 ODI batsmen according to my ratings

Avg - Average, SR - Strike Rate, AA - Adjusted Average, ASR - ADjusted Strike rate, LI - Longetivity Index, RI - Risk Index

The inclusion criteria - more than 500 runs.



wht happened to the all rounders  mate....they are some player in da list more than a batsman...they should reward some more points...(tendulkar..jayasuriya...kallis...klusener)
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zuhair_abbasi View Drop Down
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Posts: 6202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zuhair_abbasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 September 2008 at 6:17am
This list seems a bit more realistic and reasonable and a very few would actually argue. nice work i must say
http://thecricketinsight.blogspot.com/
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Posts: 15694 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 September 2008 at 1:46pm
Playing Devil's Advocate , statistics doesn't cover all bases , Ian Botham in his pomp would walk into any one day side.
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