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Spin or accuracy?

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70_degree_spin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 70_degree_spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Spin or accuracy?
    Posted: 18 September 2006 at 4:44pm
Off spinning is the easiest ball to bowl (not to master) and is by far the easiest delivery to bat against except from someone bowling at 65 mph. Pheonix, tell that to Anil Kumbles 500 test victims.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TCA123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2006 at 7:13pm

You are right now. Off spin is the easiest, but certainly not the easiest to master. Few people bowl it well enough to consistantly take wickets.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote MiNiWaRnEy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 2:25am
Originally posted by fishcake14

Originally posted by MiNiWaRnEy

ACCURACY!!!
I stress to you accuracy is the most important thing as a bowler,
 
I believe your hero Shane Warne has said many a time that SPIn is more important, and for about the 4th time , accuracy comes with practice.
 
My Goodness, if you are landing the ball 10m too short and 5m to wide and it spins what is the point. I am not saying you must learn to be accurate then spin, I am saying without accuracy - spin is useless. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote shorty1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 2:48am

geez guyz u aint ever gona get a conclusive answer.....it depends what you mean by accuracy, to an acomplished spin bowler it could mean landing 6 balls in the exact same spot, or landing the ball where you want eg 1 ball 10cm outside off.. next one a little shorter next one a little slower ..... what is important is CONTROL...meaning you can bowl what you want when you want this includes spin, drift, length, speed, and line.....all of these aspects interplay to produce a good leg spin bowler.....

"accuracy" is to broad of a subject to be discussed

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Post Options Post Options   Quote MiNiWaRnEy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 4:28am
Accuracy is a very broad term.
Fishcake14 says Warne said Spin is more improtant.
THAT IS FOR WARNE THE GREAT. He as a little kid could land a leg break ont he pitch, for others it takes years. Accuracy (as in being able to get the right length) and then spin.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote shorty1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 6:35am
wat the hell are u smokin mate...if u cant land a ball on the pitch ur strugglin
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MiNiWaRnEy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 6:37am
 As a little kid Warne could land a leg break, not many kids can do that, not at 6 or 7 yo. He naturally lands it, if you are liek Warne then spin is more important, if you are not the accuracy followed by spin.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MiNiWaRnEy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 6:38am
Originally posted by shorty1

wat the hell are u smokin mate...if u cant land a ball on the pitch ur strugglin
 
I take particular offense to that too.. 'wat the hell are u smokin mate'.
 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote shorty1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 6:38am
if your 6 or 7 you shouldnt be worrying about either...you should be going out there and having fun and just bowling...the more you bowl the better youll get at both
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MiNiWaRnEy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 6:40am
Originally posted by shorty1

if your 6 or 7 you shouldnt be worrying about either...you should be going out there and having fun and just bowling...the more you bowl the better youll get at both
 
Have a cry, and the when you finish get over yourself. That is not the point! I was replying to fishcake14's comments, but out.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote shorty1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 6:42am
mate i dun needa get ova myself.. im not the one tryin to better my bowling by chating on sum ****ty forum... either listen to me or dun your choice..how old are u anyway
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MiNiWaRnEy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 6:48am
Better my bowling!!!!
I made the SPin forum so I could help people, not improve my game u fool!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TCA123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by MiNiWaRnEy

Originally posted by fishcake14

Originally posted by MiNiWaRnEy

ACCURACY!!!
I stress to you accuracy is the most important thing as a bowler,
 
I believe your hero Shane Warne has said many a time that SPIn is more important, and for about the 4th time , accuracy comes with practice.
 
My Goodness, if you are landing the ball 10m too short and 5m to wide and it spins what is the point. I am not saying you must learn to be accurate then spin, I am saying without accuracy - spin is useless. 

Exactly my thought. Right on.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote fishcake14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 9:00pm

Everyone has different thoughts on this which is good, BUT this isn't go anywhere and shorty and warney are going round in circles, and very soon I predict this will turn into CRICKET WORLD WAR III and everyone who posts here will be eternally doomed, but I don't really care anymore because I think spin's more important but other people disagree and no matter how many messages are sent explaining which is more important NO-ONE is going to listen. In conclusion, I think this post should be turned into a poll.

 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pietersen Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 9:37pm

obviously you need accuracy

but spins just as important

you need both

but at the end of the day would you rather be able to place the ball on a matchstick every time, of be able to turn the ball 2 metres

goes without saying really

check out the ultimate spinners guide -   spinny.co.nr
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 70_degree_spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 10:13pm
How do you change it in to a poll, do I just create a new thread?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fishcake14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2006 at 4:27pm

Originally posted by 70_degree_spin

How do you change it in to a poll, do I just create a new thread?

I think so. The that way it would be easier to see what people thought was more important straightaway and have the arghuments underneath.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote TCA123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2006 at 7:46pm
Well i'm not sure a poll is needed. It seems mighty obvious to me the general consensus is that accuracy is the most important.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 70_degree_spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2006 at 10:15pm
Well what do you think TCA?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote spin wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2006 at 10:32pm

C'mon shorty, miniwarney is right. Without the accuracy, the turn is useless. I know turn is important too but think about bowling a long hop with plenty of turn, whats the result - a 4 or 6. Whats the result for bowling accurate - wickets or no runs - as simple as that.

Turn combined with accuracy is deadly and thats makes murali and warney special. CASE CLOSED NOW !!!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote TCA123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2006 at 4:28pm
I took 7 wickets at the nets today on a wet pitch that wouldnt spin. Accuracy got me all my wickets.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fishcake14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2006 at 9:04pm
OK, point proved.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote TCA123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2006 at 8:36pm
Well i dont mean to be forceful. Just it's how i feel
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MiNiWaRnEy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2006 at 9:49am
Case Closed Boys and Girls. Clobber close this thread. We have come to a compromise.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wal Bada Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2006 at 2:56pm

Depends on the case.

If you are a big spinner of the ball, who is spinning it yards, then you can get away with accuracy to some degree. line differing in 6 inches would not matter.

If you can't spin in miles, then you have to be bull's eye accurate. even 6 inches of change of line will cost you.

I started as a leggie, turned it miles, floated it up, reasonably accurate and got wickets. My mate down the other end was bowling fast, flat, with little spin, but deadly accurate. He could land it on a 5cm radius circle with an accuracy over 90% over different speeds, with swing when coming to arm ball. He also got wickets too, more than me infact. So depending on your style one of the qualities you have to make a choice.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wal Bada Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2006 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by TCA123

You are right now. Off spin is the easiest, but certainly not the easiest to master. Few people bowl it well enough to consistantly take wickets.

You can't have much variations with it. You have to vary the line, length and flight of the stock ball.

My bowling partner has once demonstrated me how to ball the arm ball (he is a left arm orthadox bowler). It is bowled as a finger spin ball, seam rotating nicely, but tilted and the shiny side of the ball hits the pitch. Hence it will not grip and will go straight. Other type of arm ball was the orthadox seam up, which was swinging in to the right hand batsman. He also had a dealdly flipper which was forced between fingers. (he did not make Sri Lanka A due to his academic work and advancing age - now 30)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote TCA123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2006 at 9:56pm

Well as an off spinner i obviously don't have the variation of a leggie. But in the limited over cricket i play, i don't need a large array of deliveries. Just the arm ball which gets LBWs is really needed. Although i'm working on a doosra. But i'll doubt whether i'l need it.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wal Bada Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 September 2006 at 6:42am
You can deliver a off spin with lot of side spin or with lot of over spin (axis of the rotation changes seam is like "-" in side spinning off break and like "/" in over spinning off break)
That will give you a very nice variation which is very difficult to pick. Just rotate the wrist counter-clock wise (if right handed) to deliver the over spinning ball nad clockwise (beware of the chuck) to deliver the side soinning ball. side spinning ball will turn more, but slowly, is useful when bowled with a flat trajectory, aiming to get LBWs. Over spinning ball has to be flighted as it will jump off the track because of the top spin it gets. So bowl it slowly.

Then add a rolled offie (which you don't try to force to spin) which will turn less and can get slip catches with RHBs. Then orthadox seam up arm ball (with out swing) or the difficult one that my bowling partner had. You'll be a dream offie if you have above variations
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 70_degree_spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 September 2006 at 12:15pm
TCA, youre fine the way you are, those deliveries sound like fishcake variations to me, look at harbjhajan before he had the doosra, he got bounce with his off breaks and had a very accurate arm ball wihich took all his wickets, you dont need those variations which take years to master.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TCA123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 September 2006 at 3:21pm

Wal Bada your quite right in what you say about seam positions. But I do it already  I tell to what though, any new offie should read your post because it will really help them.

As for 70DS. I understand what your saying about no need for variation. I'm devloping a doosra which is not bowled in the convential Murali style. It's simply the fingers dragging down the left hand side of the ball to almost make a leg cutter. Very much like Saqlain. I know what you mean when you say i should focus on my stock deliveries and i have been doing so. But now i feel i need something extra. I'm working on the flipper, as diguised off break that skids and the doora as mentioned. 



Edited by TCA123
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