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Symonds Vs Flintoff
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Poll Question: Best ODI All-Rounder
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
206 [41.28%]
293 [58.72%]
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ANIL KUMBLE View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 March 2006 at 5:33am
phil tuffnel is a ***ka did u see that vidoe on allan border medal night he was ****ing off all the players
Check out my blog http://crictopia.blogspot.com/ pretty bad though...
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Posts: 1517 		Post Options Post Options   Quote abubakar52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2006 at 5:37am
Answer To MiniWarnney: Yes you are right they do not indicate any performance but bowling averages and batting averages not even strike rates,wickets,fielding etc..


Answer To AK: You are right Razzaq is a better all-rounder but as I said erlier this list is only upon Averages in that malik is higher.
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Ricky Ponting for PM

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Originally posted by ANIL KUMBLE

phil tuffnel is a ***ka did u see that vidoe on allan border medal night he was ****ing off all the players
 
 
The best thing AK has said on this forum to date... You should be supporting the Aussies, with that sort of language you pass up as one anyday.
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Sledger View Drop Down
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The rankings are gimmicky and seem to influence the younger members of this forum.

Personally I make my own mind up , masses of data give an incite to how a player has performed , but nothing at all on his INFLUENCE in the matches.

If a batsman averages in the high 50's and the team hasn't the time to bowl the opposition out , doesn't that detract from his stats?? The answer is NO - the numbers are set in stone irrespective of the results.

Stats are useful , but don't let them or the ratings cloud your own judgement of a player.
Mental disintegration works for me !!
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Posts: 1517 		Post Options Post Options   Quote abubakar52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2006 at 5:40am
Originally posted by Sledger

The rankings are gimmicky and seem to influence the younger members of this forum.

Personally I make my own mind up , masses of data give an incite to how a player has performed , but nothing at all on his INFLUENCE in the matches.

If a batsman averages in the high 50's and the team hasn't the time to bowl the opposition out , doesn't that detract from his stats?? The answer is NO - the numbers are set in stone irrespective of the results.

Stats are useful , but don't let them or the ratings cloud your own judgement of a player.


Thanks for the advice but don't stats tell how the player performs and how the player performs is how good he is. Correct?
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MiNiWaRnEy View Drop Down
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Ricky Ponting for PM

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Posts: 2395 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MiNiWaRnEy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2006 at 5:42am
Originally posted by abubakar52

Answer To MiniWarnney: Yes you are right they do not indicate any performance but bowling averages and batting averages not even strike rates,wickets,fielding etc..


Answer To AK: You are right Razzaq is a better all-rounder but as I said erlier this list is only upon Averages in that malik is higher.
 
MALIK defiately started of as an off spinner who could bat alright...since getting called for a suspect action, and the gettting selected just for his batting becasue he was not allowed to bowl hos batting has dramatically improved.
 
Abdul's bowling has lost that zip about it just like Kallis (cept Kallis averages 55+).. He has the prerequisite of all Paki quicks and that is reverse swing..His batting is getting better though but needs some refinements, he would not get into the Paki team on only his bowling anymore, and his batting alone would not get him into the team. His batting, bowling and decent fielding compliment each other.
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The stats used may also reflect the teams in which the players are opposing, for example, Sri Lanka play Bangladesh a lot therefore giving the players more oppurtunities against weak batting, bowling and fielding sides, no offense to Bangladesh, come 2031 World Cup they'll be undefeated champions
In memory of Malcolm Denzil Marshall 1958-1999 The greatest fast bowler in Test Cricket history.

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MiNiWaRnEy View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sledger

The rankings are gimmicky and seem to influence the younger members of this forum.

Personally I make my own mind up , masses of data give an incite to how a player has performed , but nothing at all on his INFLUENCE in the matches.

If a batsman averages in the high 50's and the team hasn't the time to bowl the opposition out , doesn't that detract from his stats?? The answer is NO - the numbers are set in stone irrespective of the results.

Stats are useful , but don't let them or the ratings cloud your own judgement of a player.
 
Dead right and well put out..I have sort of been trying to say that because a lot of the guys that are younger or new to the game focus too much on stats and do not know how good/bad they actually are.
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MiNiWaRnEy View Drop Down
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Ricky Ponting for PM

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Stats at times mean nothing or very little. Look at Ponting or Warne's stats, they have barely player or played no games versus Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. Since Bangladesh came into tests Murali's stats have improved dramatically.
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ANIL KUMBLE View Drop Down
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Posts: 8043 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ANIL KUMBLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2006 at 5:47am
true he has taken about 120 test wickets against them 2 teams
Check out my blog http://crictopia.blogspot.com/ pretty bad though...
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Sledger View Drop Down
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Posts: 15694 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2006 at 5:47am
Originally posted by abubakar52

Thanks for the advice but don't stats tell how the player performs and how the player performs is how good he is. Correct?


They don't tell all the story. For instance if Shaun Pollock's figures in the test today read either...

   18-6-31-0     or& nbsp;    18-0-68-2 which is better?

Taking wickets is vital in tests , but what's to say he didn't beat the bat 6 or 7 times and went wicketless (0-31) and the 2-68 were gifted wickets from poor balls and even worse shots?

The same with batting - a batsman might make a seriously streaky 90-odd (Hayden at Newlands!) or a delightful 30 before getting a jaffa!

Over an entire career , these things tend to level out , but that doesn't detract from the fact that figures can be very deceptive.
Mental disintegration works for me !!
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MiNiWaRnEy View Drop Down
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Ricky Ponting for PM

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Streaky 90...c'mon matey. It was gritty in my book and was matchwinning, a very patient inning.
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Sledger View Drop Down
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Posts: 15694 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2006 at 5:51am
Just a wind up mate!!!     He's definitely changed his approach to batting and it's paying dividends now. I hope he goes back to his old biffing approach , come November!!
Mental disintegration works for me !!
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MiNiWaRnEy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2395 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MiNiWaRnEy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2006 at 5:55am
 Yeh he has incredible power, and his old style was to dominate and he was actually scoring very quickly. His new style is definately very reliable and efficient.
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Guyon FitzMiles View Drop Down
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Posts: 16 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guyon FitzMiles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2006 at 6:18am
so whats your thoughts on the second test?
Aussie my foot!!!!
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cricket_mstr View Drop Down
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Posts: 863 		Post Options Post Options   Quote cricket_mstr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2006 at 10:37am

Symonds is the best fielder in the world at the moment, equal with Ponting.

If you say Flintoff is good in slips and has a good arm. I've never seen Symonds have a ping at the stumps and miss. From about 30 metres away I've seen him time and time again hit the stumps accurately.

Symonds can field short and deep, and also has hands that never drop catches.

---

Here's some statistics for those of you that think Flintoff is a better bowler  (ODI)

  • Symonds gets a wicket every 7.4 overs
  • Flintoff gets a wicket every 5.9 overs

Not much difference



Edited by cricket_mstr
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crownmethod View Drop Down
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Originally posted by cricket_mstr

Symonds is the best fielder in the world at the moment, equal with Ponting.

Equal with Ponting?. No way. Ponting drops alot of catches when fielding in the slips, Symonds never drops catches. Symonds also makes those unbelievable dives to stop a ball going to the boundary, Ponting doesn't.
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Good strike rates for both.... Symonds is definately a better one day player. In tests Flintoff has been given yrs to establish himself, Symonds hasn't..so it is tough to compare them becasue of that.
 
In the ratings Roy is No.4 in batting and 2 or 3 in all rounder, and those ranking do not include versatility with the ball nor fielding.
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Originally posted by crownmethod

Originally posted by cricket_mstr

Symonds is the best fielder in the world at the moment, equal with Ponting.

Equal with Ponting?. No way. Ponting drops alot of catches when fielding in the slips, Symonds never drops catches. Symonds also makes those unbelievable dives to stop a ball going to the boundary, Ponting doesn't.

Your right, I'd admit my favorite batsman Ponting isn't as good as Symonds in the field

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Ricky Ponting for PM

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PONTING...What, he has the safest pair of hands on the planet, I have seen Roy drop a couple of catches..Anyway fielding a slip is a totally different agenda, we never say RHodes field there or Roy.
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Originally posted by MiNiWaRnEy

Good strike rates for both.... Symonds is definately a better one day player. In tests Flintoff has been given yrs to establish himself, Symonds hasn't..so it is tough to compare them becasue of that.


If Symonds was as good as some people appear to think he is, he would have been given plenty of opportunities in the test side long before now
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Posts: 8838 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Clobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2006 at 11:07am
Incidentally this poll has yet again been rendered useless by people messing around - Symonds has had over 50 votes in the last hour which is BS
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'Tis, congrats on the 1000 posts Clobber.!!
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Thats because whoever made this post allowed people to vote more than once.
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Isn't he on 999?
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Posts: 863 		Post Options Post Options   Quote cricket_mstr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2006 at 11:09am
Originally posted by Clobber

Originally posted by MiNiWaRnEy

Good strike rates for both.... Symonds is definately a better one day player. In tests Flintoff has been given yrs to establish himself, Symonds hasn't..so it is tough to compare them becasue of that.



If Symonds was as good as some people appear to think he is, he would have been given plenty of opportunities in the test side long before now

That is why us Aussies think the selectors are dam stupid. Symonds should have been in the team long ago, the same as Hussey and Hodge

Clobber you can't say Hussey isn't as good as people think

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Ricky Ponting for PM

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Yep
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Originally posted by MiNiWaRnEy

'Tis, congrats on the 1000 posts Clobber.!!


cheers matey....I think the 1000th was in another thread and none too profound. Do I get a prize now?
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Originally posted by cricket_mstr

Originally posted by Clobber

Originally posted by MiNiWaRnEy

Good strike rates for both.... Symonds is definately a better one day player. In tests Flintoff has been given yrs to establish himself, Symonds hasn't..so it is tough to compare them becasue of that.



If Symonds was as good as some people appear to think he is, he would have been given plenty of opportunities in the test side long before now

That is why us Aussies think the selectors are dam stupid. Symonds should have been in the team long ago, the same as Hussey and Hodge

Clobber you can't say Hussey isn't as good as people think



ahhhh just cos you know I'm a big Hussey fan

I suppose the difference was that there just hasn't been a slot in the batting for so long whereas all sides would be delighted to uncover a quality all rounder.
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Posts: 863 		Post Options Post Options   Quote cricket_mstr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2006 at 11:18am

Well in Flintoff's favor, Australia would never have thought how useful an alrounder can be in a match if it weren't for Andrew Flintoff.

With that century and wickets to go along side, Australia were thinking "Where's our Flintoff"



Edited by cricket_mstr
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