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The CCC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The CCC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: weak core muscles
    Posted: 26 June 2007 at 11:31am
just going back to the jogging stuff, sorry I thought we were talking about club level cricket. International and national level players generaly jog a lot because of the length of the game and also in most cases there is much more ground to cover when fielding. You also aim to get the overs in quickly so you'll be jogging from one end of the field to the other between overs.
In limited overs matches also you are expected to keep moving for the whole length of the game.
But all of this is NOT necessary on the village green. You are more likely to improve your performance by doing shuttle runs, press-ups, sit-ups, and curls as well as the extra time spent in nets instead of jogging (don't forget that jogging consumes quite some time to have any effect on your body, about 40minutes if i remember rightly).

Edited by The CCC - 26 June 2007 at 11:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote harrowdrive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2007 at 5:52pm
You won't find many international cricketers jogging.

Perhaps as a part of a warm up but certainly not hitting the roads.

Jogging involes maintaining your heart rate at a steady but elevated state for long periods (15 minutes plus). In a cricket match your heart rate spikes up and down depending on what you are doing - even a Twenty20 game has periods where you are barely moving interspersed by jogs, runs and all out sprints.

Therefore to train in a cricket specific way at whatever level you are at you must train at the same work to rest ratio as a typical match. That means interval and fartlek training, not jogging.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote spin wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2007 at 9:09pm
When Ntini was in the Caribbean in 2005, he jogged everyday from the hotel to the ground and from the ground to the hotel; well I guess except the Antigua test match when he got carnaged by Gayle! 
 
I have tried doing muscle training and it hasn't increased my fitness like jogging does. It makes you stronger yes but I still got weary quick. I do jog now and I don't get weary as easy as before!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Tyke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2007 at 9:16pm
List of known Joggers (these are just a few off the top of my head):
 
Ntini
Malinga
Nixon
Mcgrath
Symonds
Vaughan
 
These, like I said, are off the top of my head. If anyone can think of any more post them up.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote spin wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2007 at 10:47pm
Then it's no strange reason why Ntini is one of the fittest around!! Add symonds and McGrath too - he played a lot for an old man of late!!
 


Edited by spin wizard - 26 June 2007 at 10:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NZ_Fast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2007 at 4:11am
I read on a page by Brendon Bracewell a couple of years ago that young pace bowlers should be going for runs (jogging) for 45 mins at least 3 times a week. It has been recently removed from the page,  but he must know what he is talking about being a coach of up and coming pace bowlers.

I personnally never had my runs this long, it seemed a bit exsessive with trying to fit everything else of life in.


Edited by NZ_Fast - 27 June 2007 at 4:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The CCC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2007 at 11:22am
NZ_Fast, yeah, B.Bracewell is right there. Jogging has next to zero effect on your body if you run for less than 40 mins. Same as walking where effects start after 20mins.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The CCC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2007 at 11:24am
Originally posted by harrowdrive

You won't find many international cricketers jogging.Perhaps as a part of a warm up but certainly not hitting the roads.Jogging involes maintaining your heart rate at a steady but elevated state for long periods (15 minutes plus). In a cricket match your heart rate spikes up and down depending on what you are doing - even a Twenty20 game has periods where you are barely moving interspersed by jogs, runs and all out sprints.Therefore to train in a cricket specific way at whatever level you are at you must train at the same work to rest ratio as a typical match. That means interval and fartlek training, not jogging.


OK, I had always thought they did it to get the extra stamina to last for 4/5days.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote harrowdrive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2007 at 4:01pm
Lets forget about what people say they do, the physiological facts speak for themselves.

Cricket does not require a steady state level of fitness.

Think about what you do on the pitch. Do you run around for 20-40 minutes non stop or do you stop, start, sprint, jog, run and stand still for varied periods of time?

There is no physiologist or fitness coach who would advocate steady state jogging for cricket. Maybe they did 10-15 years ago but not these days.

I'm no expert on those International names that were listed but I'm willing to bet they do interval or fartlek running rather than straight up jogging. That is to say, slow jog for 1 minute, sprint for 30 secs, walk for 2 mins, run for 1 min etc. In that way you could call that jogging, but it is different from running at the same speed for extended periods.

That has the effect of building stamina and recovery between intervals in exactly the same way as happens on the pitch.

By the way, I'm no knocking jogging if people enjoy it, just saying you need to be aware of it's limitations as a training tool for cricket. There are better ways.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Tyke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2007 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by harrowdrive

Think about what you do on the pitch. Do you run around for 20-40 minutes non stop or do you stop, start, sprint, jog, run and stand still for varied periods of time?
 
OK, let's turn this into a slightly different scenario using a different sport that doesn't involve jogging. This would be boxing.
 
"Think about what you do in the ring. Do you run around for 20-40 minutes non stop or do you stop, start, and stand still for varied periods of time?"
 
If it can't be applied to cricket, where you do move about at, at least a jog pace, then why would it be valued in a sport where you don't do any jogging? Are you going to say that they should do step ups instead because it's more relevant?
 
Jogging is a very good form of exercise and is severely undervalued by physiologists and fitness coaches, especially in cricket.
 
As for the internationals that jog, they do exactly that, jog. Steady pace, long distance jogging. Not varied pace, etc.
And some of these internationals are the fittest players on the planet. And some are knocking on yet are fitter than most of the younger players who don't jog.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote spin wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2007 at 8:37pm
Clap
        Sprints can make you fit but Jogging adds more stamina to your body! I can't see an unfit man making a double ton so those who leave jogging out of their cricket won't be that good!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rambo_123UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2007 at 4:01pm
Irrespective of the pros and cons of jogging, it has nothing at all to do with building up the core muscles, which was the original question asked.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote spin wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2007 at 9:08pm
I don't even know what the core muscle is. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NZ_Fast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2007 at 1:06am
Originally posted by spin wizard

I don't even know what the core muscle is. LOL


Pretty much your ab's, and to an extent your lower back muscles
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Post Options Post Options   Quote spin wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2007 at 4:38pm
Oh, thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote harrowdrive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2007 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by The Tyke

Jogging is a very good form of exercise and is severely undervalued by physiologists and fitness coaches, especially in cricket.


Jogging is an excellent form of exercise. It will improve your health and reduce your risk of several nasty diseases. I highly recommend it for general health reasons, especially if you enjoy it.

It also has almost no crossover to cricket performance. Physiologists base their methods on principles like Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demand (SAID).

That's why a lot of people say to get fit for cricket you need to play cricket. That's true to a big extent.

Don't take my word for it. Listen to this guy: http://functionalpathtraining.blogspot.com/2007/02/train-for-work-capacity-not-endurance.html

At the end of it all (and I won't post again in this topic because I don't think we are going anywhere with the discussion), I believe performance comes from understanding what we do on the pitch then working on those elements in practice.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote drandhawa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 July 2008 at 8:57pm
I actually jog quite a bit and have noticed that I have gotten weaker. My pace has dropped as long with my strength. However, jogging mixed with a solid routine of resistance training will do wonders. It's just the matter of going out there and doing it!Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2008 at 5:56am
Resistance training huh - I like the sound of that!  I've never been able to resist that ABF in the pub or that last pringle , I must be a natural!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bladescape Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2008 at 6:38am
For that matter I've never been able to resist when a chocolate cake is on the table and the rule is free-for-all!
Maybe I need to some resistance training!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ives16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2008 at 9:32am
Jogging is not cricket specific, but obviously helps these individuals.
 
Most top level coaches will develop a programme for each individual.  This might include Andrew Symonds to do some jogging.
 
I doubt Vaughan's knee surgeon will like him pounding the roads!
 
On the other hand, the players you've named might enjoy it.
(Especially when on tour and away from the wife and kids!)
 
But going back to the original question of core strength.
 
Ask a qualified coach (Preferably level 3), they will know best, and make any program specific to your build, weight, strength, etc.....
 
(By the way Tyke, wouldn't be from Barnsley would you with a name like that?)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ives16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2008 at 9:35am
Jesse Ryder
Rob Key
Scott Styris
Phil Jaques
Chris Gayle
Mike Gatting
 
All well known joggers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NZ_Fast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2008 at 10:07am
Oh my, i can't believe what trollop i was posting about fitness for cricket before.
 
Sure jogging will have some effect because it will increase the capacity and efficiency of your respitory system, thus allowing you to 'repay your oxygen debt' quicker such as the time between overs or ball chases. BUT, this is not specific (a major point of the universal "principles of training") to cricket. Sprints (particuarly interval training) is excellent for developing your fast-twitch muscles unlike jogging which is slow twitch oriented.  You then build stamina by doing things like doing a few reps of 100m at 70-80% max speed. Resistance training will help with your power and strength, though dont start doing things like bicep curls....why? well again specificity, when on the field do you do an action like a bicep curl???? Training 'movements' is much better; free weights are best for this though if your like me and cant/dont want to join a gym you can use your own bodyweight to great effect. Do things like 'wood chops' or 'planks' for core, push ups for triceps and chest (excellent for throwing) and inverted rows for errr more chest though different muscles and shoulders....I think you get the idea.


Edited by NZ_Fast - 09 July 2008 at 10:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote spin wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2008 at 4:20pm
Ives16, do you know that Gayle is actually the fastest sprinter on the Windies team - believe it or not!
 
Anyhow, from my own experience, jogging does a lot.  My agility increased, I got fitter and even faster at running.
 
A lot of fitness things recommended today is to jog, run, jog, run as someone mentioned somewhere above and two of the fittest lads I know said they use to do sprints which makes you fitter quicker them say.  Like 5 short distance sprints but if you want stamina, jogging is sure as hell very good. 
 
I once saw Symonds jog around the st. vincent playing field with a brisk pace and he did a lot of laps - no wonder he is so damn fit!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ives16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2008 at 4:27pm
You are missing the point mate.
 
Which is that you don't need to be super-fit to be a world class cricketer.
 
Inzamam Ul Haq
Eddo Brandes
Brian McMillan
Shane Warne
 
I'm sure Gayle is quick (sprinting - fast twitch fibres and all that).
 
But I can't see the king of cool getting up early and jogging for 5 miles every other morning can you?
 
Symonds on the other hand is obviously well into his running, and aerobically probably one of the fittest.
 
But he'll get his core strength in the gym! - (if it isn't natural anyway!)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NZ_Fast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2008 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by spin wizard

 
Anyhow, from my own experience, jogging does a lot.  My agility increased, I got fitter and even faster at running.
 
 
Your agility increased? So you are able to make sharp turns etc quicker now? Well that is possible, though it could improve more if you did specific agility training like ladders.
 
In theory and it seems like you've proven it, jogging will help you to run faster, but this comes back to the fact it has increased the efficiency of your respitory system, allowing you to maintain a higher speed for longer, but sprint/interval training over all is more effective.
 
Oh and Ives, yes there are world class players who are not physically that fit, but lets be honest, who here on these forums are that talented? Us more normal folk need to train hard to get the most we can out of our bodies.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote spin wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2008 at 1:10am
Well, to be honest NZ_Fast, I was an unfit lad before I started playing hard ball cricket and as soon as I started to jog which was the only exercise bar playing cricket, it increased my fitness and I guess a lot of other things to but a few days after doing my first joggin, I noticed after walking in I was quicker at turning and chasing balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NZ_Fast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2008 at 1:15am

If your a little podgy, even walking will increase your agility..

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ives16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2008 at 9:07am
Obviously any form of exercise is only going to benefit your general levels of fitness, and help you out in any given sport.
 
(Except pub sports, such as darts, snooker, etc, etc - where drinking copious amounts of alcohol increase perceived performance, if not results!)
 
But you don't NEED to be a prime physical specimin to be good at a stop start sport such as cricket.
 
And you certainly don't NEED to jog to increase core strength.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote spin wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2008 at 1:36pm
True but some stamina gained from jogging might mean you can spend longer time doing some longer core exercise. Big%20smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ives16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2008 at 2:34pm
So we are all agreed then.
Jogging improves general fitness?
 
(As was stated about 79 messages ago!)
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