12 fielders...

   OK, I was umpiring a junior game the other day and suddenly noticed there were 12 on the fielding side (including the WK and bowler). 

I called 'no ball', advised the fielding coach who removed a player and play went on. 

Later on I checked to the rules and realised that my "No Ball" call might not have been justified (had no impact on the result as the fielding team won easily anyway).

But I have not found a clear answer as to what to do when there are 12 fielders on the ground. Any one else have a precise answer? Do I need to contacts the MCC again like last time? (go search for my quasi-famous "injured player" thread.)

Author	Message Share Topic Printable Version Delicious Digg Facebook Furl Google Boomarks Google Buzz MySpace Newsvine reddit StumbleUpon Translate Twitter Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic
manning Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Short Leg Joined: 07 February 2006 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 72	Post Options Post Reply Quote manning Report Post Quote Reply Topic: 12 fielders... Posted: 06 December 2006 at 4:20am
	OK, I was umpiring a junior game the other day and suddenly noticed there were 12 on the fielding side (including the WK and bowler). I called 'no ball', advised the fielding coach who removed a player and play went on. Later on I checked to the rules and realised that my "No Ball" call might not have been justified (had no impact on the result as the fielding team won easily anyway). But I have not found a clear answer as to what to do when there are 12 fielders on the ground. Any one else have a precise answer? Do I need to contacts the MCC again like last time? (go search for my quasi-famous "injured player" thread.)

NZ_Fast Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Wicket-Keeper Joined: 21 August 2006 Location: New Zealand Online Status: Offline Posts: 1928	Post Options Post Reply Quote NZ_Fast Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 December 2006 at 9:37am
	Im not sure if this is correct but this happened once in one of my games. We just signaled the ball didn't count (you know, with the wave both your hands kinda like you doing a jive)

fishcake14 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Opener Joined: 11 May 2006 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 2173	Post Options Post Reply Quote fishcake14 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 December 2006 at 4:48pm
	Is it not a dead ball instead of a no ball? I don't know!


Chin Music Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Extra Cover Joined: 26 September 2006 Location: England Online Status: Offline Posts: 595	Post Options Post Reply Quote Chin Music Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 December 2006 at 5:07pm
	Surely there's some punishment to the fielding side for that? It can't just be a dead ball. My guess would be five runs, that's the default punishment for offences in the field (ie, leaving something to obstruct the ball, ball-tampering) On a similar note, I was interested to discover last season that if a fielder wearing gloves catches the ball it's not out and a five-run penalty, the gloves themselves classing as "an object left on the field of play by the fielding side"
	Turnham Green CC Fast bowler & middle/lower-order bat

robbie Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Wicket-Keeper Joined: 19 September 2006 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 1661	Post Options Post Reply Quote robbie Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 December 2006 at 5:25pm
	there wont be a 5 run penalty it is a junior game which is played for fun and that has happened to my team alot

fishcake14 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Opener Joined: 11 May 2006 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 2173	Post Options Post Reply Quote fishcake14 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 December 2006 at 7:01pm
	Aye, kill the children! They've broken the rules, make them pay!!


slogger72N/O Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Opener Joined: 21 May 2006 Location: England Online Status: Offline Posts: 2853	Post Options Post Reply Quote slogger72N/O Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 December 2006 at 7:02pm
	Yeah I would've probably called it a no ball though, you can't just let a team get away with having 12 men on the field

manning Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Short Leg Joined: 07 February 2006 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 72	Post Options Post Reply Quote manning Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 December 2006 at 1:10am
	Interesting though that I have not been able to find a ruling for it anywhere. Looks like another letter to Lords... (I assume there will again be a five month wait for an answer) The five ball penalty seems possible too. It's under 12's so the normal rules for cricket now apply (in our league for the grades below under 12 there are only six deliveries per over, regardless of no-balls and wides, and no LBW if a shot was offered). But I'm sure it happens regularly, and I'm surprised there is no clear ruling anywhere (at least one i've found).

manning Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Short Leg Joined: 07 February 2006 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 72	Post Options Post Reply Quote manning Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 December 2006 at 1:39am
	Actually never mind - I think I found the answer. http://www.lords.org/data/files/law_2_qanda-9660.pdf (See section 2E/2F) In the event the player has had no contact with the ball, then the player is to be removed and the umpire may (at his discretion) report an incident of unfair play under law 42. If the player has had contact with the ball, then 5 penalty runs are to be awarded. I'm not entirely convinced that this covers the 12 fielders issue, because under Appendix D of the rules there can (by definition) only be 11 fielders on the field. Maybe a letter to Lords is worthwhile after all.

manning Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Short Leg Joined: 07 February 2006 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 72	Post Options Post Reply Quote manning Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 December 2006 at 2:07am
	And another letter to the MCC sent. Check back in May for the answer.

Sledger Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Dickenson can marry my mother-in-law ! Joined: 08 August 2005 Location: South Africa Online Status: Offline Posts: 15694	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sledger Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 December 2006 at 5:41am
	Write to the Bearded Wonder Manning - the response will be a lot quicker!! Edited by Sledger - 07 December 2006 at 5:42am
	Mental disintegration works for me !!

manning Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Short Leg Joined: 07 February 2006 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 72	Post Options Post Reply Quote manning Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 December 2006 at 7:57am
	Is this his sort of thing? I'll give it a go regardless. Just checked out his site and read a question where someone asked how you could get a hat trick in three overs. Interestingly I know of a case where a bowler got a hat trick over three different matches(!) Shall I explain...? Nah, let's see if anyone can figure out how it happened.

Kerm Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Wicket-Keeper Joined: 03 September 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1168	Post Options Post Reply Quote Kerm Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 December 2006 at 10:16am
	Potentially if you get the 9th wicket with the first ball of your first over on two sepperate occasions then get a wicket with your next ball.
	Kerm

BOBBI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Extra Cover Joined: 09 October 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 555	Post Options Post Reply Quote BOBBI Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 December 2006 at 12:26pm
	I have never liked the way that can work. I won and lost awards because of technicalities such as that. I won a batting average for my comp once with an average of 173. You needed 150 runs to qualify and I was dismissed once. I took 30 odd wickets but some guy who played a few games took the 12 needed for less. So long as the wickets are in the same innngs I agree. Otherwise i think they are of a diferent nature.
	Judge the player not by their stats, but by their opposition.

manning Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Short Leg Joined: 07 February 2006 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 72	Post Options Post Reply Quote manning Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 December 2006 at 11:16pm
	Theoretically, if you took the 2nd innings 10th wicket with your first ball on two occasions and a wicket with your first ball after that you could spread your hat trick over three matches. But it seems unlikely that any decent bowler wouldn't get the ball until the 10th wicket was on hand. The actual case I know about (early 90's Tasmanian club cricket, I forget who the player was) involved an injury. (1) Took the final wicket of a match (2) Took a wicket on his first ball in the next match. However he slipped and fell over (it was a damp and greasy pitch in northern Tasmania) and did his knee in. Left the field for treatment and did not play again for 4-5 weeks. (3) Took a wicket with his first ball upon returning to the game. Technically regarded as a hat trick despite the bizarre circumstances.

Sledger Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Dickenson can marry my mother-in-law ! Joined: 08 August 2005 Location: South Africa Online Status: Offline Posts: 15694	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sledger Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 December 2006 at 8:35am
	Nice yarn there Manning ! Sadly , the hierarchy in the game have stymied you - 3 wickets in 3 balls spread over different matches does't constitute a hattrick. It strikes me as unfair , but that's what they decided.
	Mental disintegration works for me !!

Chin Music Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Extra Cover Joined: 26 September 2006 Location: England Online Status: Offline Posts: 595	Post Options Post Reply Quote Chin Music Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 December 2006 at 10:53am
	I always thought a hat-trick was only a hat-trick if the wickets were in the same game. Is there an official definition?
	Turnham Green CC Fast bowler & middle/lower-order bat

manning Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Short Leg Joined: 07 February 2006 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 72	Post Options Post Reply Quote manning Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 December 2006 at 10:00pm
	Sledger: Really? It seemed to count back then, the local papers even ran a story on it (although to be fair, there isn't much else to write about in Northern Tasmania). So is there a formal definition of a hat trick? They don't seem to kept in the formal stats for a player, and are generally mentioned as a side note. I would think that three wickes for three consecutive balls is a hat trick, regardless of how they are obtained - it's an extraordinary feat regardless. I've umpired one at a lower grade level and it's exciting enough then.

Sledger Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Dickenson can marry my mother-in-law ! Joined: 08 August 2005 Location: South Africa Online Status: Offline Posts: 15694	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sledger Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 13 December 2006 at 6:25am
	I think I read about it on Steve's page on cricinfo - but it might have been The Bearded Wonder ! (I'm getting on matey!!) . I was surprised too , but it definitely isn't a hattrick.
	Mental disintegration works for me !!