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Hammond View Drop Down
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Posts: 213 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Zealand in India - 2010
    Posted: 08 November 2010 at 2:52am
Wow, never thought I'd see the day when one lone NZ seamer (albeit a pretty handy one) would own the Indian top order. Maybe the Indian batting truly is just a one track horse- on anything like a green top they crumble..
 
They said that some grass had appeared on the surface on day 4.. but the kiwis batted pretty well on it. Showed up technical flaws in the Indian batting even the prolific Tendulkar.
 
Maybe modern batting really is just flat track bullying. Wickets in the old days were uncovered and very green- couldn't see much difference between the grass and the strip. And this Indian batting line up crumbled when a few blades of grass appeared!
"I never knew what colour the ball was only it's size" Colour blind Bill Ponsford..
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Posts: 1088 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 5:19am
Originally posted by Clobber

So sam, since we like making judgements based on half an innings, does this prove that Indian batsmen can't bat in Indian conditions %20%20%20


Sam is not an Indian supporter Clobs Smile
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Posts: 15694 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 5:27am
Was complacency to blame for the Indian 2nd innings surrender ?  You'd think the game was drifting to an inevitable draw and then India implode - test cricket can always surprise. Well done NZ , great fightback with the bat and now with the ball too - all this after getting belted by Bangladesh !
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Posts: 6202 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 5:49am
THat man Laxman again comes to the rescue. Sehwag may be their most explosive one for the first innings - but if there is ever a man to depend in the second innings it is VVS.
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Posts: 15694 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 5:57am
Yes , he's done it time and time again - fine technique wins through.
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Posts: 213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 8:07am
Fantastic recovery- although you always expect that from vvs (very,very special) Harbajhan is a bit of a surprise though.. maybe he should bat higher as an all-rounder..
 
NZ are really missing that second seamer.. they would have run through India I reckon- trying to take Indian wickets with spin in India is like trying to bounce Viv Richards out- futile. Even Warne averaged 43 against India in India and he was the best we've had since Benaud.
 
Shame it was starting to look like a cracker of a test match. I bet the team will be proud of how they managed a draw for Vettori's 100th test from the pasting they got in India's first innings..
"I never knew what colour the ball was only it's size" Colour blind Bill Ponsford..
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Posts: 213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 8:25am
Congrats to Bhaji great ton.. I'm sure his team mates will never hear the end of it
"I never knew what colour the ball was only it's size" Colour blind Bill Ponsford..
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Posts: 8838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 8:31am
Originally posted by kirankri

Originally posted by Clobber

So sam, since we like making judgements based on half an innings, does this prove that Indian batsmen can't bat in Indian conditions %20%20%20


Sam is not an Indian supporter Clobs Smile
 
Thanks kiran, but the comment was nothing to do with who he does or doesn't support Smile
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Posts: 9453 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 12:49pm
Unbelievable collapse by India and an unbelievable recovery too!  Other than that, wasn't much of a test to remember I reckon.
In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage.
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Posts: 6202 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 12:56pm
Not at all. India was expected not to lose and they did not. But NZL should take heart from this performance. Another better fast bowler in the side, probably Tuffey, and they can do better
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Posts: 15694 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 1:18pm
Some last day and why test cricket is still the best game in town.
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Posts: 4363 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by Clobber

Originally posted by kirankri

Originally posted by Clobber

So sam, since we like making judgements based on half an innings, does this prove that Indian batsmen can't bat in Indian conditions %20%20%20


Sam is not an Indian supporter Clobs Smile
 
Thanks kiran, but the comment was nothing to do with who he does or doesn't support Smile


Clobs is right, it has nothing to do with supporting a side.

well played Bhajji, India have got out of jail but NZL have shown that they can fight. I would have loved to comment more on this game but presently I'm just very disappointed whith what is happening in Dubai with the PAK team so really don't feel like posting for now.


Edited by sam_ahmed - 08 November 2010 at 5:12pm
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Posts: 2204 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by mystery

Ya thats why you get blind when they lose and when you finally accept defeat defend it with saying that its ok to lose against NZ.
I never give reasons nor do I defend. Defeat is part and parcel of any great team, though it happens rarely.
 
Few things for you to understand , Australia always keep saying Ashes is more important, why ?  Ask any English/Australian sensible fan , they would want to win Ashes rather than victory other countires if given a choice. Ask a NZ fan , they would want to win over Australia more than winning in India.Ask Indian or Pakistani fans, we would give more importance to Ind-Pak then any other matches.
 
It is something like choosing between what goes down the throat easily, India's tour down under (Last Australia tour) where we lost 2-1 still haunts me more than our  2-1 loss to SL few years back.
 
In the same way losing against some opponents does not leave a bitter feeling.That is what I said.


Edited by MalhotraRaj84 - 08 November 2010 at 8:11pm
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Posts: 2204 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 7:30pm
India's overseas record has been good in last 4-5 years.Against SA and Aus last time we toured these countries it was 2-1 loss,yep there is something for us to improve over there.
 
When Indian batting collapses or few of our  youngsters get out to short balls it is branded as they can't play.They can't play on faster greener pitches ? Come on , who won at Perth, last time around ? How was Indian performance in England and NZ  and other boucy grass filled pitches?  
 
When team India has ascended from mid of the table to top spot and then have been there for about an  year , it means they are so very good then what their rankings suggest.
 
Similarly a team at top when they descend from top to middle of rankings means they have been so very bad than what their rankings suggest. 


Edited by MalhotraRaj84 - 08 November 2010 at 8:15pm
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Posts: 2204 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by MalhotraRaj84

Originally posted by sam_ahmed

15/4 ... Sachin gone, DRAMA!

Concerns indeed Raj!
15/5 now !
 
I will always have hopes Sam Smile . They have dug a hole for themselves , but this team knows how to win from such situations.So keep the Faith.
 
EDIT:
Even our tailenders have pulled us out of a hole many times.
Probably India is the only team that could have saved from such a 15/5 , 65/6 precarious position with about 6+ sessions to bat out.
 
and , probably only Indian fans have so much faith in their team even in such a postion too. It was a general feeling yesterday like "It's ok, it will be a draw, Lax will score a big century tommorow" among Indians.


Edited by MalhotraRaj84 - 08 November 2010 at 8:16pm
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Posts: 9453 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by Raj

When Indian batting collapses or few of our  youngsters get out to short balls it is branded as they can't play.They can't play on faster greener pitches ? Come on , who won at Perth, last time around ? How was Indian performance in England and NZ  and other boucy grass filled pitches?  
 
I wouldn't say the Indians can't play on faster, green decks.  The Indians do bat pace well but what really trouble the young ones is the bouncy decks, not necessarily the pace.  I'm not gonna say about playing on seaming decks because seam bowling will rip through any batting attack.
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Posts: 213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2010 at 1:04am
  
"Probably India is the only team that could have saved from such a 15/5 , 65/6 precarious position with about 6+ sessions to bat out. "
 
Umm- you forget England 4th test v Pakistan, 5/47 and all out 446. Not even India could have managed that one I reckon..
 
 
"I never knew what colour the ball was only it's size" Colour blind Bill Ponsford..
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Posts: 2204 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2010 at 3:51am
Absolutely mate , England played really well in the match you specified.
 
This was a collapse on 4th day just after tea, with 15/5 & negligeble lead, from that position to bat out more than a day and session it is really difficult. Many other teams would wilt in pressure.It is not easy to make a comeback so late in test match,as the pitch would have worn out,body would be tired and mentally players accept defeat from such a position so late.
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Posts: 1517 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2010 at 4:38am
I remember there was a match where Pakistan were 39/6 in which Pathan got a hat trick first over of the match, and PAK did win that one I think
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Posts: 15694 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2010 at 5:21am
India's record away has improved dramatically and I give Gary Kirsten some credit for that. Fine coach , who when still playing ,had his batting plans meticulously worked out for whatever conditions were thrown at him.  Not the greatest player around , but made full use of what he had - a tough cookie and something I think he's passed onto his troops.
            Big test coming up in SA where India are yet to win a test series - it could be an absolute cracker!
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Posts: 2140 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2010 at 7:23am
Originally posted by MalhotraRaj84

Originally posted by MalhotraRaj84

Originally posted by sam_ahmed

15/4 ... Sachin gone, DRAMA!

Concerns indeed Raj!
15/5 now !
 
I will always have hopes Sam Smile . They have dug a hole for themselves , but this team knows how to win from such situations.So keep the Faith.
 
EDIT:
Even our tailenders have pulled us out of a hole many times.
Probably India is the only team that could have saved from such a 15/5 , 65/6 precarious position with about 6+ sessions to bat out.
 
and , probably only Indian fans have so much faith in their team even in such a postion too. It was a general feeling yesterday like "It's ok, it will be a draw, Lax will score a big century tommorow" among Indians.
 
Probably India is the only team who is no.1 but still cant thrash a side like NZ and allow them to score over 400. 6+ sessions to bat out? the match which i saw India bat out only 3 sessions and 12 overs.
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Posts: 9453 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2010 at 12:36pm
Mystery, you got to stop being bitter about it, India are number 1 because they are number 1.  They've done better than all test team in the last 2 years, nevermind how many of those games came at home.
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Posts: 2204 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2010 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by mystery

6+ sessions to bat out? the match which i saw India bat out only 3 sessions and 12 overs.
  Yes, you are right about this.
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Posts: 2204 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2010 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by Sledger

India's record away has improved dramatically and I give Gary Kirsten some credit for that. Fine coach , who when still playing ,had his batting plans meticulously worked out for whatever conditions were thrown at him.  Not the greatest player around , but made full use of what he had - a tough cookie and something I think he's passed onto his troops.
            Big test coming up in SA where India are yet to win a test series - it could be an absolute cracker!
Exactly, inspite of having a great team of players, great on feild decesion making captain and off feild strategy making coach is needed. That's exactly Gary-Dhoni combination is providing for these bunch of talented guys.
 
However just a Great captain - Great coach can do nothing with weak team.
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Posts: 15694 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2010 at 5:44am
Originally posted by MalhotraRaj84

However just a Great captain - Great coach can do nothing with weak team.

 Even if the team's weak , it's still better having a great coach than an absolute duffer!
 
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Posts: 6202 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2010 at 6:21am
The difference between Bob Woolmer and Waqar Younis tells it best
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Posts: 15694 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2010 at 6:53am
Yep , Woolmer was top drawer.
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Posts: 4363 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2010 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by spin wizard

Originally posted by Raj

When Indian batting collapses or few of our  youngsters get out to short balls it is branded as they can't play.They can't play on faster greener pitches ? Come on , who won at Perth, last time around ? How was Indian performance in England and NZ  and other boucy grass filled pitches?  
 
I wouldn't say the Indians can't play on faster, green decks.  The Indians do bat pace well but what really trouble the young ones is the bouncy decks, not necessarily the pace.  I'm not gonna say about playing on seaming decks because seam bowling will rip through any batting attack.


Fast tracks I agree but surely the ones in ENG and NZl and even AUS were not green at all, no team can play on green tops. Spinny is right.
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Posts: 4363 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2010 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by MalhotraRaj84

Originally posted by MalhotraRaj84

Originally posted by sam_ahmed

15/4 ... Sachin gone, DRAMA!

Concerns indeed Raj!
15/5 now !
 
I will always have hopes Sam Smile . They have dug a hole for themselves , but this team knows how to win from such situations.So keep the Faith.
 
EDIT:
Even our tailenders have pulled us out of a hole many times.
Probably India is the only team that could have saved from such a 15/5 , 65/6 precarious position with about 6+ sessions to bat out.
 
and , probably only Indian fans have so much faith in their team even in such a postion too. It was a general feeling yesterday like "It's ok, it will be a draw, Lax will score a big century tommorow" among Indians.


Will that general feeling be there if the match is in RSA or AUS is the question Raj, A below par performance by India and let us not hide that. VVS won't be around for ever and neither will Sachin or Dravid, none of the youngsters have proved themselves so far which is a major cause of concern.

The strategy for now though should be simple for India, it is obvious that Harbhajan and the tail can score in India and subcontinental tracks while the bowlers for the 4th time in a row have conceded 400+ runs in the first innings. Play 6 batters and 5 bowlers in subcontinental conditions and 7 batters and 4 bowlers overseas.
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Posts: 2204 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2010 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by sam_ahmed

Will that general feeling be there if the match is in RSA or AUS is the question Raj
 Absolutely.Something about future SA tour..."India cannot lose Test series in SA this time , If at all some team can lose it is SA.Their best chance is to draw it". 
 
Originally posted by sam_ahmed

A below par performance by India and let us not hide that.
 Great team does not mean they always dominate and win, that is not possible.Once in a while there will be defeat. However they are able to pull themselves out of trouble more often than not.
 
Originally posted by sam_ahmed

 VVS won't be around for ever and neither will Sachin or Dravid, none of the youngsters have proved themselves so far which is a major cause of concern.
 Live in the present and enjoy it.Anyway once they call it quits (which has to happen for every player), but then cricket never stops, youngsters keep replacing legends over period of time.
 
Pujara showed glimpses of what he can, Raina and Vijay have been good to begin.Do you expect them to score 50's every innings?
Originally posted by sam_ahmed

The strategy for now though should be simple for India, it is obvious that Harbhajan and the tail can score in India and subcontinental tracks while the bowlers for the 4th time in a row have conceded 400+ runs in the first innings. Play 6 batters and 5 bowlers in subcontinental conditions and 7 batters and 4 bowlers overseas.
No not at all , they should stick with only 4 bowlers. 
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