Gilchrist - greatest wicket keeper batsman?
Printed From: Cricket World
Category: Letter To The Editor
Forum Name: Player Discussion
Forum Discription: Player discussion, comparisons and memories
URL: http://www.cricketworld.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4436
Printed Date: 22 May 2013 at 12:21pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.71 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Gilchrist - greatest wicket keeper batsman?
Posted By: peterkillion
Subject: Gilchrist - greatest wicket keeper batsman?
Date Posted: 27 January 2008 at 8:39am
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I was saddened to hear today that Adam Gilchrist http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23115245-5001021,00.html - announced his retirement even though he had stated earlier in the week that he would http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23094092-5001023,00.html - play on for another year .
The article I read today ( http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23115245-5001021,00.html - here ) states that he was "the game's greatest wicketkeeper-batsman".
I was wondering what stats this claim is based on. Can anyone help? thanks
Good luck Adam
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Replies:
Posted By: joelza1990
Date Posted: 27 January 2008 at 11:46pm
| According to a player comparison i did a while ago many preffered Sangakarra over Gilchrist. Ok technically and average wise Sangakarra wins in that department, but i don't believe he brought that "X" factor to the field like Adam did. Gilly could steal a match in a session and did so on many occasions. If he isn't the bestest keeper/batsman to be seen he's darn close. |
Posted By: zuhair_abbasi
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 5:53am
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Tough question that!! Gilly undoubtedly and somewhat unfortunately changed the benchmark of being a test wicket-keeper. He made other teams look for batsman who can keep the wickets. Gilly is right there at the top as an all-rounder. But as a specialist he takes a bow to many of the past greats for sure. And batting wise, I feel Flower and Sangakkara possess(d) better batting capabilities. Though, Gilly is a great, without any doubt. Hats off to him ------------- http://thecricketinsight.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: cricketluva
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 8:20am
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If you guys have watched enough cricket then you will realise that both Flower and Sangakkara lacked tremendously with the gloves. When I think of Kumar's keeping I always think back to the 2003 world cup game against the Aussies where he missed about two stumpings and dropped a catch. His keeping is not test class, and I'm afraid Flower's was barely either.
In terms of effectiveness with the bat, they are all pretty equal - and statiscally there is nothing in it. But, as said above, Gilchrist had this X factor and could easily take the game away from the opposition in a session - something FLower definately didn't do and not something we always see from Kumar.
Moreover, you can argue that Gilly and Kumar had to keep to Warne and Murali respectively... and Adam did a fantastic job, while Sangarkkara was up and down... Andy Flower did not really have to keep to a difficult spinner.
Additionally, the fact that both Kumar and Andy Flower gave up the gloves at some stage in their respective careers, as did Alec Stewart - while Gilly never did (only in the early part of his ODI career did he just bat, but this was because of Healy keeping in the side).
The best Keeper/Batsman all rounder in history is certainly Gilchrist.
I am not saying this as an Australian, but as a cricket lover and my reasons are very clearly stated. ------------- See you later Gilly! Thanks for the memories! |
Posted By: canadiancricket
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 8:27am
| I rate Flower's and Sangakkara batting higher than Gilly. His job was different (when batting) as opposed to those two where they were/are the main batsman of their respective teams. |
Posted By: spin wizard
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 5:49pm
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It will be hard to rate them all batting wise because their role was different. Gilly is mostly in to carnage bowlers as the top did the work, but not always. Sometimes, he came in with the team in a mess and took the game away from the opposition. But I think you can safely say he's the greatest wicket keeper batsman. Great batsmen dominate, Gilly got that and his keeping was very good although not the very best. ------------- In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage. |
Posted By: samhache
Date Posted: 17 February 2008 at 12:24am
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All I can say is that, I have always had huge respect for Gilly and I'm a New Zealander!
His unselfish attitude have helped Australia to countless victories over the period in which he has been a part of both the ODI and test sides. He is, without doubt, one of the best batsmen to watch - when in the 'zone'.
The recent ashes 100 was one of the best innings in test match cricket that a cricket spectator/purist can expect to see!
Gilly is and soon to be was the greatest keeper/batsman the game has ever seen. End of story. ------------- Warriors!! |
Posted By: tonks007
Date Posted: 18 February 2008 at 6:09am
------------- even the sun shines on a dogs ass some days |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 19 February 2008 at 12:50pm
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Michael Henderson wrote a thought provoking article in the Telegraph
some weeks back (I'm sure you can find it). He said that without
doubt the finest keeper/batsman was Alan Knott and that Adam Gilchrist has been the finest batsman/keeper. There's a subtle difference which won't be lost on real cricket afficiados Having seen both in action I'd say that MH was spot on. ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: yes.aravind
Date Posted: 19 February 2008 at 7:30pm
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Okay I agree that Gilly is a wonderful
wicket-keeper-batsman.
But, don't forget the African Blossom - ANDY FLOWER
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Posted By: samhache
Date Posted: 20 February 2008 at 9:13pm
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Good point sledge! I revoke my earlier statement, and I'll take your stance on this. ------------- Warriors!! |
Posted By: bondy
Date Posted: 20 February 2008 at 9:37pm
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You're right there yes.aravind (??), Flower must be considered under the same bracket and in my opinion he was an even better test match batsman than Gilly. ------------- Good one Graham! |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 21 February 2008 at 5:46am
Good lad !! ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: TKORL
Date Posted: 20 March 2008 at 1:23am
| Yeah, outstanding batsman and outstanding wicketkeeper in one package. |
Posted By: spin wizard
Date Posted: 20 March 2008 at 1:29am
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Yeah, when a team gets someone like that, damn! ------------- In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage. |
Posted By: bondy
Date Posted: 20 March 2008 at 2:55am
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Wasn't that great in the last two years of his career, but he revolutionised the role of a WK throughout his career which deserves a large amount of credit. Also, his unselfish attitude is second to none in modern day cricket.
------------- Good one Graham! |
Posted By: Shoaib
Date Posted: 25 May 2009 at 4:25pm
| Yes,Gilchrist was great but best ever has to be Andy Flower. |
Posted By: lalinda_sang
Date Posted: 26 May 2009 at 3:43am
Gilly is one of da greatest cricketers of all time.... but i hv to tell you something...in that world cup game sanga missed couple of chances...thatz what happen in game of cricket isn't it?...any great crickerter hv thier bad day....even gilly....gilly have the ability to power the inning and take the game away from any other team in no time....and sanga have the ability to face the inning and put his team on good position...and thats what happend in IPL 2009 recently ....and dont forget in that tornament sanga have won 3 or 4 time man of the match for his performance....i recon that both players are match winning players.... ------------- Malinga Is Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Posted By: lalinda_sang
Date Posted: 26 May 2009 at 3:53am
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Hey cricketluva you told sanga is misses a stumping chance in 2003 world cup...but take a look at this stumping in WC 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYluZOQsmrw and i forget to tell you something in previous post...sanga never keep badly to muraly mate...  ------------- Malinga Is Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Posted By: milkman
Date Posted: 26 May 2009 at 5:11am
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I think if Sanga was the greatest WK/Batsman then he would still be keeping in test cricket. Otherwise we have to make a distinction between keeper/batsman and batsman/keeper. Wicket keeping in the past was much like goal keeping in football/soccer, in that it was a very specialised role. Now this is not as much the case and there is a greater emphasis on the keeper being an all rounder. Wally Grout was a fantastic keeper for Australia in the 50s, but he averaged something like 16 or 17 with the bat and batted right in the tail end. Then you get a bloke like Andy Flower in the 90s averaging 50 with the bat and carrying the batting line up. All these players that have been mentioned are different sorts of players. Rod Marsh, Knott and Healy were the finest keepers I've seen, although the former two I did not see as much, only in replay footage, as they were a bit before my time. But I saw a lot of Healy, and his keeping was marvellous. Whether he was keeping to Warne or the big-spinning MacGill or to guys like Jason Gillespie who was genuinely fast in his youth. He wasn't a bad batsman either, 3 test tons and an average of 30 is nothing to be ashamed of. But he certainly isn't the best BATSMAN/wicket-keeper. Knott as well also had some fairly tricky, and 'quick' spin bowlers to keep up to the stumps to, and of course a lot of pacers. Like Healy and Marsh, the keepers back then did not use helmets either. I personally would rule out Sanga for the simple fact that he has pretty much stopped keeping in test cricket , and the fact that Jayawardene has shown that his keeping is better than Sanga's. For mine, in terms of Batting/Keepers it's Gilchrist and then Flower. My reason is that I think Gilchrist is more of a match winner and has more fluid batting, in that he commits to his strokes and has remarkable timing. I also think Gilchrist's keeping was stronger than that of Flower's and was tested more, as the quality of the Australian bowling and the variety of the Australian bowling was greater. But Flower is a very close second nonetheless, and carried his nation with great honour and heart. He made Zimbabwe competitive, along with guys like Heath Streak, Neil Johnson and Grant Flower. In terms of Keeper/Batsman, I'd probably say Alan Knott. This is mostly due to the footage I've seen and the literature I've read. He had a great rival at the time he played in Rodney Marsh, and Rod Marsh started a nice trend for the Australian keeping scene - a bloke who can keep proficiently and play as a dasher down the order. Always a fan of Healy too, and I think Mark Boucher, at his prime, is a very compact keeper with a proven track record. ------------- Ideal cricketer: Bowl like Warne, bat like Tendulkar, field like Jonty!! |
Posted By: bladescape
Date Posted: 26 May 2009 at 7:14am
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One note:
Way back before 1950 I think,Australia had a keeper called Tallon who batted at 11! ------------- You know, I'm trying to decide whether to change my siggy or not... |
Posted By: milkman
Date Posted: 26 May 2009 at 10:13am
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No , Don Tallon played in the late 40s and early-mid 50s....
------------- Ideal cricketer: Bowl like Warne, bat like Tendulkar, field like Jonty!! |
Posted By: bladescape
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 7:39am
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All I could remember was he debuted before 1950,and I was right. ------------- You know, I'm trying to decide whether to change my siggy or not... |
Posted By: zuhair_abbasi
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 8:06am
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Having a highest score of 92 batting at 11 has to be some sort of a record then ------------- http://thecricketinsight.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: bladescape
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 8:13am
He didn't always. He just did on a few occasions. ------------- You know, I'm trying to decide whether to change my siggy or not... |
Posted By: milkman
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 10:20am
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Don Tallon could bat. He was a decent 1st class cricket, averaged about 30. Test cricket was very tricky in those days when batting, especially with uncovered pitches and unregulated laws pertaining to bowling actions. Furthermore, little protective equipment meant lower order batsman were not very competent at all, it's really only a recent phenomena that no 10s can bat reasonably well - due a lot to the confidence the protective equipment gives.
------------- Ideal cricketer: Bowl like Warne, bat like Tendulkar, field like Jonty!! |
Posted By: spin wizard
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 1:31pm
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Milkman, I don't think Sangakkara was that bad a keeper. I saw him take many excellent catches before the little Keeper Jayawardena came around. True that Sangakkara's keeping looked to have gone down a bit since 2007 seeing that it's really not his role anymore. He mad an excellent stumping of Lara in that WC, it was out of the top drawer! ------------- In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage. |
Posted By: milkman
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 1:33pm
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Oh no, I don't think he's bad and I did not say that. I basically made the point that Jayawardene is better and that if Kumar was THAT great a keeper he would have stuck to it.
------------- Ideal cricketer: Bowl like Warne, bat like Tendulkar, field like Jonty!! |
Posted By: spin wizard
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 1:34pm
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Yeah, that lil fella is good. I rate him as the best currently! ------------- In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage. |
Posted By: milkman
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 1:36pm
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And he can bat too!
------------- Ideal cricketer: Bowl like Warne, bat like Tendulkar, field like Jonty!! |
Posted By: spin wizard
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 2:25pm
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Yep, to stir up some debate, he's the best Wicket keeper/batsman around. Dhoni or Haddin will take best batsman/wicket keeper. ------------- In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage. |
Posted By: milkman
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 2:47pm
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Haddin can bat quite well, he gets a lot of starts, but doesn't always get on with it. He can also bat anywhere in ODIs. I think though Dhoni is more of a matchwinner, however he hasn't got a test ton in a long while which is surprising to me. I think he only has 1 from memory. With the gloves, Haddin has disappointed me at times, but he has also done some good things. Dhoni isn't too flash, but I think at the moment he's showing better skills than Haddin. Boucher at his best would probably be the best of the lot, but he hasn't done a lot of late with the bat and he has been disappointing. ------------- Ideal cricketer: Bowl like Warne, bat like Tendulkar, field like Jonty!! |
Posted By: spin wizard
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 3:08pm
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Dhoni keeps on impressing me as time goes by. Started as a dangerous hitter but is playing more and more sensible as time goes by. Comes in at all positions and does the job. Some people react differently to captaincy but it really changed Dhoni for the best! ------------- In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage. |
Posted By: lalinda_sang
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 3:38pm
i think jayawardena picked in test team because sri lanka want to sangakkara to be specialist batsman.....since he left the job as a keeper he improve his batting...  ------------- Malinga Is Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Posted By: milkman
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 4:13pm
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Dead right Lalinda. Sanga is one of the best batsman in the world as a result. It was a good move.
------------- Ideal cricketer: Bowl like Warne, bat like Tendulkar, field like Jonty!! |
Posted By: punterrulz
Date Posted: 17 November 2009 at 4:47am
| Sanga is wonderful as captain, batsmen or keeper. Hes not keeping now? great for cricket I think. And dont those sri lankan batsmen score huge centuries? I like Haddin as a batsmen/keeper though. Not the greatest glovemen but his batting is worth watching. |
Posted By: jackshan
Date Posted: 20 December 2011 at 7:19am
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Awards of Gilchrist Gilchrist was one of five Wisden Cricketers of the Year for 2002,and Australia's One-day International Player of the Year in 2003 and 2004. He was awarded the Allan Border Medal in 2003,and was the only Australian cricketer currently playing to have been named in "Richie Benaud's Greatest XI" in 2004. He was selected in the ICC World XI for the charity series against the ACC Asian XI, 2004–05, was voted as "World's Scariest Batsman" in a poll of international bowlers,and was named as wicket-keeper and opening batsman in Australia's "greatest ever ODI team." In a poll of over ten thousand people hosted in 2007 by Cricinfo, he was voted the ninth greatest all-rounder of the last one hundred years. A panel of prominent cricket writers selected him in Australia’s all-time best XI for Cricinfo. Gilchrist has not only left his mark on Australian cricket but the whole cricketing world.
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