You Rate the Umpire
Printed From: Cricket World
Category: The Archives
Forum Name: Cricket World Cup 2011
Forum Discription: Cricket World Cup 2011 discussion
URL: http://www.cricketworld.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5279
Printed Date: 25 May 2013 at 8:31am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.71 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: You Rate the Umpire
Posted By: Sledger
Subject: You Rate the Umpire
Date Posted: 17 February 2011 at 5:52am
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We all like to have a go at the umpires , in all forms of the game. I thought it might be interesting to rate them after each world cup match. From a score or 1 (shocking) , 2 (poor) , 3 (average) , 4 (good) and 5 (excellent ) , half points are okay too . We'll get to see how rational our thoughts are , especially when our teams are involved. Simply post in this thread your score for both standing umpires and the 3rd umpire (he's got an important job and we've seen they've messed that up in the past!) , not forgetting which game you're scoring on! Then add some comments to explain your rating. I'll collate the data at the end of each match and also at the end of the tournament to see how they all did. For easy reading , keep the format the same (see below) Match - England vs The Nederlands Umpires Simon Taufel 4 Aleem Dar 3.5 3rd Umpire Billy Doctrell 4 Comments - Taufel , as usual did his job with the minimum of fuss. That lbw that he gave that was given not out on referral was the only reason I couldn't give him 5. Aleem Dar had two shaky moments , the first when he asked if the Broad dismissal was a no ball when he was well behind the line and the lbw he gave when it pitched outside leg stump. The former was a poor one , the latter was very close , in no ways could it be called a howler. Doctrove gets 4 , getting all his decisions right , but he did take too long over that lbw against Strauss - it didn't need that many replays. ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Replies:
Posted By: zuhair_abbasi
Date Posted: 17 February 2011 at 6:39am
| Billy Doctrell??? Nice idea though. I will be interested for sure. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 17 February 2011 at 7:07am
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Doctrove !! Tis early and I had a late night matey !
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: spin wizard
Date Posted: 17 February 2011 at 1:02pm
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Sledger, I'd rather an umpire take longer and the decision right so no points would be taken away from me there. Take that long and screw up, that I will take away for.
At the moment, Dar and Taufel are the best, and I am liking Gould to, doing a good job so far. The others have their days now and again. ------------- In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage. |
Posted By: zuhair_abbasi
Date Posted: 21 February 2011 at 10:56am
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Sledger, are you taking notes?
Zimbabwe have got two successful reviews - that certainly means negative score for the ump. I am following it online so cant tell who the umpire is on that end. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 22 February 2011 at 5:44am
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I saw that mate , both plumb and given not out ! Congratulations to Zim for utilising the review system effectively. Is it me or do umpires seem to stick the weaker sides whilst giving latitude to the top ones ? I'll be giving my ratings on these two guys when I get the name of the 2nd umpire - da Silva is an old friend and a rather useless one too!
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: zuhair_abbasi
Date Posted: 22 February 2011 at 6:03am
| The other one is Richard Kettleborough. I am not sure about that Sledge, because I remember the PAk IRL game of the 2007 WC and the umpiring was horrible though it was not tilted in the favour of the top side. |
Posted By: Genuine Muppet
Date Posted: 22 February 2011 at 11:37am
| I have watched all the games so far being in prime time here in Aus, and I would have to say that the umpiring has been very good. The two decisions with Haddin and Watson having their LBW decisions overturned on review was tight. Both could have gone either way. I commented straight away on the Haddin decision, and called it out before it was reviewed or had seen a replay, and once slowed down it looked plumb, but it had turned a fair way. The Watson decision, he was down the track, and had bat/pad close together, so there definitely was some doubt there. |
Posted By: zuhair_abbasi
Date Posted: 22 February 2011 at 12:59pm
| Probably the cushion of having the DRS makes the umpires a bit relaxed too. |
Posted By: spin wizard
Date Posted: 22 February 2011 at 2:05pm
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Due to work, can't get to participate in this thread much, I won't be seeing much of the games, seeing most of them will start when I am bed (5 am my time) and the second half during my working hours.
Nonetheless, when West Indies and India are batting, sleep is of no concern to me, whether at midnight or 5 am! ------------- In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 25 February 2011 at 6:25am
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I'll rate the umpires when I get to watch an entire match - watching dribs and drabs and then rating the officials would be unfair. Having said that , apart from da Silva ,they've all done pretty well.
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: zuhair_abbasi
Date Posted: 25 February 2011 at 6:26am
| Amesh Saheba too had a shocker of a game Sledge. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 25 February 2011 at 6:33am
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Firstly , which match was that mate and secondly where does he come from , I've never heard of him!
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: zuhair_abbasi
Date Posted: 25 February 2011 at 6:50am
| It was yesterday's SAF WIN game Sledge and that guy is an Indian and has been around for a while. Strange you have not seen him yet. |
Posted By: spin wizard
Date Posted: 26 February 2011 at 2:58am
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Sledge has seen him but just can't remember his name.
There was an Indian umpire, can't remember his name but he was very good. I'm surprised he hasn't reach on the panel. He's a lot in the IPL and a few international ODI's but I can't remember his name. Some Tarapore or something or the other. ------------- In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage. |
Posted By: zuhair_abbasi
Date Posted: 26 February 2011 at 5:51am
| Its been a while I last saw a good Indian umpire. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 28 February 2011 at 6:07am
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I'll go with that zuhair , generally Indian umpires have been pretty awful !
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: kirankri
Date Posted: 28 February 2011 at 6:26am
| You can generalize it Sledge. The Indian subcontinent umpires have been generally bad. There may be very few exceptions -Venkat, Dar... |
Posted By: kirankri
Date Posted: 28 February 2011 at 6:28am
| And what about yesterday's third umpire Sledge? He deserves a 1 or probably -4 (minus 4) because he was a TV umpire. A bad decision from TV umpire should get negative... |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 28 February 2011 at 6:55am
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Do you mean the Ian Bell debacle Kiran ? It was out but they've made a ruling whereby if the batsman is 2.5 meters from the crease they'll stay with the standing umpire's decision. I'm not sure that's right , but that's what they've decided and all the batsman are aware of it.
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: vote4peace
Date Posted: 28 February 2011 at 6:59am
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I don't think you can blame the TV Umpire. He was just following the rule book. There's apparently a 2.5 rule which states that the accuracy of the ball trakker isn't precise when the ball is pitched beyond the 2.5m(from the strikers stumps or the crease not sure about that) mark. Its just a matter of debate if that should have been out or not. Its the ICC that might have to do the tinkering job again with the UDRS rules.
As far as the captains and the teams are considered they just need to accept it and move on, no on field drama required. ------------- I distrust a camel.. and anyone else who can go a week without a drink. 
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Posted By: vote4peace
Date Posted: 28 February 2011 at 7:06am
Yeah I agree, indian umpiring standards have been really poor ever since venkat bid adieu. Which Dar were you talking about kiranki? I thought he was from pakistan (Aleem Dar ie.) ------------- I distrust a camel.. and anyone else who can go a week without a drink.
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Posted By: zuhair_abbasi
Date Posted: 28 February 2011 at 7:27am
| Kiran has taken it one step ahead - from India to the Indian sub-continent :p Clever chap. |
Posted By: kirankri
Date Posted: 28 February 2011 at 8:12am
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Yes Vote4, I was talking about Aleem Dar.
Nothing clever about it Zuhair. I meant it. How many wordclass umpires have India, Pakisan, Srilanka & Bangladesh combined produced? Venkat and Dar are the only two who come to my mind who were worldclass in the past 20 years.
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Posted By: kirankri
Date Posted: 28 February 2011 at 8:24am
That's not correct in my opinion Sledge. Theoretically, the batsman can play forward and escape from the URDS LBW decisions (though no one has it in mind while playing a shot). So no sniko and this 2.5 meters decision would mean, URDS is totally ineffective.
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Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 28 February 2011 at 10:11am
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No hopspot and snicko isn't ideal - there's been quite a few thin nicks that haven't been picked up and definitely no walking by the batsmen !
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: vote4peace
Date Posted: 28 February 2011 at 10:15am
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Wouldn't say totally ineffective, true not foolproof but did come handy a lot of times in this world cup alone. The UDRS can only get better with time and we need to give it a shot at some point. UDRS will , i think, take the game forward and should be used consistently from now on. Just can't keep using it for selective series which is just going back and forth. Yes would be better with the snicko and hot spot, but still present DRS for me better than No DRS!! ------------- I distrust a camel.. and anyone else who can go a week without a drink.
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Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 01 March 2011 at 6:01am
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Agreed , any system has to be better than none at all. The slow motion replays have effectively removed poor bat/pad decisions out of the game , but they are pretty rare in one day cricket. The existing system is perfectly acceptable when adjudging lbws , probably it's greatest use.
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: kirankri
Date Posted: 01 March 2011 at 6:21am
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Regarding the 2.5 metre rule, if they go by standing umpires decision blindly, then why should they count it as an unsuccesful review for the bowling side Sledge? It is only the techinal limitation of device which have made them to go for this rule. In such a case why should the bowling side suffer? Second, I guess it is the same for the batsman. When he plays 2.5 mts forward and if he is sure that ball is going to miss leg and was wrongly given out, then for none of his mistake he is given out and it will be counted as unsuccessful review against the batting side.
Strangely, Dhoni/Bell or Strauss didn't know about this rule!!!
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Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 01 March 2011 at 6:35am
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I hear you Kiran , but now that they do know about the 2.5 metre rule the fielding side should refrain from reviewing!
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: Cleaner
Date Posted: 02 March 2011 at 3:46am
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1) If you are a minnow, rest assured the balance of the umpiring will go against you, eg. Kenya vs Sri Lanka today. Kenya were put in the position of having to use their reviews against some poor LBW decisions.
Good thing the review system is in place.
I thought the benefit of the doubt went to the batsman?
2) Generally, LBWs go against minnows - expected?
3) Indian umpires are not the worst. In fact, they have made some bad decisions against India! They are better than most umpires. Worst umpires I have seen in last 30 years have been Western umpires celebrated over the years for being the best but a joke when it comes to being "unbiased". Oz umpires are probably the worst in this regard with one exception? For Eastern countries, the best thing has been neutral umpiring and the review system. They should always insist upon it.
4) Why are the majority of ICC umpires from the West? There are plenty of good ones from Bangladesh, India, etc.
5) Hawkeye is sometimes a joke! Did you know that you can set parameters in Hawkeye for each team that adjusts the percentages of some decisions?
6) 3rd Umpires - need to use some common sense, eg. Ian Bell LBW vs India, etc.? They generally don't add anything? Why not just run the review on the big screen and let the 2 on-field umpires make the decision? Also, everyone in the crowd can then see whether it is fair or not?
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Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 02 March 2011 at 7:47am
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The general belief that Western Umpires (by that I think you mean those from Eng , Aus , NZ, SA) are the best has been around for many years. It's a belief held by ex-players as well as critics and supporters. Umpires in England stand in more matches than any other country's officials and it's logical that through experience they will get more decisions right. More often than not those same umpires were ex players , so they know the game from both sides of the fence. As for Bangladesh having good umpires , you'll find you're in a minority there.
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: kirankri
Date Posted: 02 March 2011 at 8:32am
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Absolutely right Sledge. The best umpires I have seen are from Eng and Aus. Sheps, Bird, Tauffel, Randell, Hair were terrific umpires.
Indian umpires were not great with the exception of Venkat. Pakistan umpires were the worst in the 80's and early 90's. Dar is an excellent umpire from Pakistan.
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Posted By: zuhair_abbasi
Date Posted: 02 March 2011 at 8:38am
| Pakistan umpires were really a shame for the entire 80s and early 90s. I don't include Hair in that otherwise good list of yours though. Dave Orchard and Ian Robinson were fantastic too. |
Posted By: kirankri
Date Posted: 02 March 2011 at 8:43am
| I was mentioning about the Eng and Aus umpires Zuhair. So didn't mention Dave Orchard, Ian Robinson and Steve Bucknor. But you are right. They were terrific. There was one more umpire from Aus who was very handsome and used to umpire most of the matches in the 80's. He was very good too. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 02 March 2011 at 8:44am
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One might think I am biased towards English umpires and it's true that when I lived in England I saw a great deal of Bird and Shepherd around the county scene as well as tests. That they were English was purely incidental as far as I was concerned , players of the likes of Lillee , Hadlee , Rice , Proctor , Donald and Warne are on record as saying they were top class and I didn't see fit to argue with them. The one great loss to test officiating has to be Peter Willey , another outstanding umpire who just found the grind of the test circuit too much . ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: spin wizard
Date Posted: 02 March 2011 at 12:51pm
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Umpires these days would appear a bit more worse due to technology and whether the oldies want to believe it or not, its true. How many decisions do we see first hand that we form a conclusion for then when the replay come we go to another? Dar and Taufel today are top class, Gould is pretty good too. Umpire gets a decision wrong marginally, I can live with that! ------------- In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage. |
Posted By: vote4peace
Date Posted: 04 March 2011 at 6:01am
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Man after yesterday's game Daryl Harper must be on -ve double digits. Had a terrible terrible game. The umpire decision was reversed 5 times in one innings. Great advert for the UDRS that game. ------------- I distrust a camel.. and anyone else who can go a week without a drink.
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Posted By: zuhair_abbasi
Date Posted: 04 March 2011 at 6:23am
| I guess it was more than five times - Harper was horrible last night. But he has always been so. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 07 March 2011 at 6:11am
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Harper's performance in that match was appalling - 0 points from me ! Just how long will the ICC stick by him ?
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: vote4peace
Date Posted: 07 March 2011 at 7:03am
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Man ICC tweaks the 2.5m DRS rule. I mean already... Thought they would wait for the WC to get over. Good move for me. The new rule states that if any part of the ball is judged to hit any part of the middle stump the on-field umpire may reverse his initial Not-Out. With the previous rule the ball had to hit dead center of the middle stump. This came into play in the Ind\Ire game when Cusack's lbw(or not lbw) decision was reversed by the field umpire Rod Tucker to be given in the bowlers favor giving Yuvraj his 5th wicket. Remember it was the same bowler who suffered in the Bell scenario previously. ------------- I distrust a camel.. and anyone else who can go a week without a drink.
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Posted By: zuhair_abbasi
Date Posted: 08 March 2011 at 8:28am
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/content/current/story/504744.html
Interesting read - very unsurprisingly though - Dar and Taufel are there on the top and Asoka and Harper on the bottom. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 08 March 2011 at 9:06am
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I've just seen that as well mate ! de Silva's referrals were all reversed and Dar and Taufel's all upheld - that says a lot ! That my pal Harper is next to bottom is no surprise either .
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: Amal
Date Posted: 09 March 2011 at 4:33pm
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Wow, I'm so happy for Dar. At least there is a man who is really doing something good for Pakistan. Wish him Good luck!!! ------------- Cricket for peace! |
Posted By: spin wizard
Date Posted: 10 March 2011 at 12:04am
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Dar has really been top class this last year or two, no doubt about that! And Harper is really poor, I generally don't criticize umpires but I've probably had enough of Harper. Just hope he's not umpiring any of West Indies game! ------------- In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 22 March 2011 at 6:26am
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Like it or hate it , the review system clearly shows who can umpire and who can't. Harper and da Silva have been left out of the quarter finals after such abject performances throughout the group stages. Hopefully that means their world cups are over , maybe their umpiring careers could well be too! ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: Cleaner
Date Posted: 24 March 2011 at 1:21pm
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India vs Australia
Critical Match - Western Umpires!
1st over Zaheer warned; commentators surprised. Puts Indian strike bowler on defensive.
Ponting in 90s - plum LBW to Harbajhan. Umpire turns it down; India have no reviews left.
Maybe 1 day we will see a sub-continent umpire in a critical match with India
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Posted By: zuhair_abbasi
Date Posted: 25 March 2011 at 5:52am
| You will have to wait for it mate - it cant be in the semis!! |
Posted By: spin wizard
Date Posted: 25 March 2011 at 5:13pm
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Umpires will always have mishaps, as long as they don't make blunders, i'm good. Like when Russell was out against England, I thought it pitched outside leg. on replay, it turned out to be a dead lbw decision! ------------- In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage. |