South Africa in New Zealand (2012)
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Topic: South Africa in New Zealand (2012)
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Subject: South Africa in New Zealand (2012)
Date Posted: 15 February 2012 at 4:22am
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South Africa tour New Zealand for 3 T20Is, 3 ODIs and 3 Tests. Some injury worries for the Kiwis but they come off the back of an impressive showing against ZIM. SA will be looking for more of that killer instinct, which was sorely lacking in the showing against SL (despite two series wins). Could be tight if NZL play their absolute A-game but I think SA are superior in all departments really, especially with the few injuries NZL have to worry about. Prediction: SA 2-0 Tests (SA may be spurred by the potential no. 1 ranking to try and win 3-0 though), SA 2-1 ODIs, SA 2-1 T20Is |
Replies:
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 15 February 2012 at 3:57pm
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Pretty much agree with BP's predictions, I'd go with exactly the same, RSA 2-0 in tests, 2-1 in ODI's and 2-1 in T20's. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: crabs
Date Posted: 15 February 2012 at 11:06pm
| I predict NZ 2-1 in T20's, 1- 1 for ODI's (one will be rained off) and 1-1 for the Tests. |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 17 February 2012 at 3:40pm
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A very optimistic prediction by Crabs, but that is how it should be, you've got to back your team.... and guess what contrary to what most of us thought, NZL beat RSA in the first T20!!! This is not going to be as easy as it looks for RSA! Although I am supporting the proteas. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: crabs
Date Posted: 17 February 2012 at 10:12pm
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I have reason to be optimistic Sam. The New Zealand team is displaying a mentality that I haven't seen in a long time, I think a lot of that is coming down to John Wright. The other thing that I haven't seen in a long time is New Zealand actually has a bit of depth now and can rest players when needed. There are mumblings that Ryder will have to work very hard and prove himself if he wants to get back in the team. NZ is now comfortably ranked the #2 team in T20's. It won't take South Africa long to adapt to the conditions though and we are in for some cracking cricket over the next 6 weeks. This is going to be a close series with both sides having a something to prove.
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Posted By: spin wizard
Date Posted: 18 February 2012 at 1:18am
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The kiwis largely have Guptill to thank for this win. With the sort of form Amla was looking in, they're lucky they ran him out. Hashin Amla everyday is becoming closer and closer to being my favourite batsman to watch today. That cover drive for 6 was really sweet to watch. As far as the game went, when SA's 3rd wicket fell, I went to bed. I'm happy for the kiwis though, I really like them as a team. ------------- In troubled times, being philosophical helps a great deal, it helps you to remain sane and not do any further damage. |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 18 February 2012 at 6:14am
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I like Kiwis too bot I like RSA more! Spinny is right, Guptill has been in extra ordinary form of late which is great for NZL. even in the WC Guptill was in top form, talk of an under rated cricketer, I think Guptill is way too under rated, he is much more consistent than the likes of McCullum, Ross Taylor, or even Jesse Ryder. Crabs is also right, NZL do look a different team these days, which is great for cricket, it'll be a delight to see them giving a tough time to heavy weights like RSA and AUS, which they are doing. Wright must have had an impact! ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 18 February 2012 at 10:04am
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It's so frustrating supporting the Proteas. This team can easily be world beaters in all formats with the talent they have but they consistently deliver only the bare minimum (expected series wins against worse opposition) without ever fully pushing on (winning world cups, inflicting thrashings and whitewashes etc.) The Kiwis looked better than expected tbh. The pace attack is still weak for T20 international cricket but McCullum is a very clever spinner and Hira didn't look too bad either. As long as Guptill keeps this form going, life is going to be difficult for RSA. The ODIs and Tests should be a lot more comfortable for RSA though with Kallis, Smith and Steyn all returning. |
Posted By: crabs
Date Posted: 19 February 2012 at 8:49am
| What a knock by Levi! Wow! Humbled the Kiwi's. Sets everything up for the decider at Eden Park! |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 19 February 2012 at 1:04pm
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That was an outstanding knock indeed! absolutely unbelievable!!! hats off for levi. I do find it quite disappointing though that most of the tracks in NZL have become absolute dead and have nothing in it for the bowlers, entertainment is one thing but having such dead tracks is a shame really, we have seen a game recently where over 400 runs were scored in a T20 game against ZIM and now this, and even the ODI's tend to be very very high scoring, I think the board should advise for better tracks. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: mystery
Date Posted: 19 February 2012 at 2:41pm
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Sam ground is another reason with kind of bat players using its just too short even the top edge goes for six if anything should change its ground size.
------------- Rohit Sharma - What the world has seen is gear 1, gear speed 2,3,4,5,7,8,9 to be witnessed in IPL only. |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 19 February 2012 at 4:05pm
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What a fabulous knock from Levi! Sensational hitting with the utmost of ease. This doesn't look to be a one-off or a fluke innings, he looks like he can do this consistently since it wasn't Afridi-type wild slogs but just clean hitting through the line. I'll bet the IPL franchise owners will keeping a close eye on him and it's definitely time to start thinking of getting him into the ODI set-up too. I actually said he should be in the ODI team prior to the SL series since he was in sensational limited overs form in the domestic tournament but SA could really use a fresh face like him for the ODIs. I know he isn't in the squad for this upcoming ODI series but for the next one, he's got to be in there and guys like Graeme Smith or Faf du Plessis better start stringing some big scores together or their place is in jeopardy. The boundaries, however, were ridiculous. A completely mis-timed top edge shouldn't be going for six. The ground is small as it is, why bring the ropes in? |
Posted By: crabs
Date Posted: 22 February 2012 at 9:29am
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Well played South Africa... well played! Didn't give up at all. NZ had it won right up until Ryder was closing in on his 50. Then for whatever reason the Kiwi's just couldn't seal the deal. Great game!
And actually, it proves how much of a farce the Duckworth/Lewis system is. When it started raining (and then in true Auckland fashion suddenly stopped) NZ would have won easily. It just goes to show!
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Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 22 February 2012 at 4:55pm
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wow! That was an unbelievable performance by RSA, held their nerve right till the end, didn't gave up and it paid off! For a change someone choked in a game involving RSA... and it wasn't RSA!!!  ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 22 February 2012 at 5:14pm
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I honestly have no idea how NZL lost that, at one stage they needed 20 runs off 27 balls with 6 wickets remaining and Jesse Ryder well set. That is probably the biggest T20I choke ever, can't remember seeing a worse one. Credit to RSA, they bowled very poorly but last 4 overs were magnificent. Marchant de Lange really held his nerve well, bowling 7 deliveries and conceding only 2 runs (1 extra run for the no-ball itself) is a great effort. Ludicrous that he over-steps on the final delivery but did very well to bowl a dot ball next up. Also, fabulous stuff from Botha. Can someone please tell me why Peterson was preferred to him for the entirety of the SL ODI series? Botha is FAR superior with the ball and also much better with the bat. If Botha doesn't play ahead of Peterson in the ODIs, I might quite literally tear my hair out. To be honest, this was NZL's best chance of winning a series. ODIs they have far less of a chance because SA will look much better balanced after Smith, Kallis and Steyn return and in the Tests, with Philander coming in, RSA will be red-hot favourites. Can't write off the Kiwis though. |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 23 February 2012 at 3:40pm
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They are a tough side the Kiwis, BP. can never count them out, I like the look of their side at the moment, there are plenty of match winners in there, and their fielding is world class, if only Dan the man can come back, it'll make a complete team. Not very impressed by Hira or Tarun thus far. RSA should still win and I want them to win, plenty of class in there and with Steyn Returning, there is nothing like it, after two ODI defetas to SLN in his absence and scrapping home in T20's, RSA will welcome Dale Steyn with both hands. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 24 February 2012 at 6:38am
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That knock of Levi's was extraordinary , 13 6's , even on a small ground takes some doing! He's been smashing 6's for fun for many years , as man and boy and as BP said , the IPL franchises will be keen to sign him up. One innings doesn't mean he'll take the world by storm as bowlers will find some way of keeping him quiet , but he has to be Smith's replacement at the top of the order in ODI's from now on. New Zealand are a useful bunch and in confident mood - the tests will make for interesting viewing. ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 25 February 2012 at 3:47pm
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very very good knock by AB and Du Plessis... RSA go 1-0 up although NZL had their moments in the game. AB DeVilliers, what a player he is! ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: crabs
Date Posted: 25 February 2012 at 10:44pm
| Clinical win by South Africa after a bit of a scare at the start of their innings. Still scratching my head though why McCullum thought batting first was a good option? Please hurry back Ross Taylor and take control of the reins! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 27 February 2012 at 12:50pm
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As was expected, Mumbai Indians have snapped up Levi. Their squad is immensely strong as it is, with this inclusion, they now look set to completely dominate the IPL. Outstanding innings by AB and Faf. AB not only has ridiculous skill but also the intelligence to know how to pace an innings nowadays. He is the best in world cricket in my opinion. Faf is also a very talented boy, glad to see him making crucial runs to further cement his spot in the side. Only two major worries. One is the opening slot to partner Amla, Smith is looking too leg-side dominant these days and seems to be very uneasy. Surely Levi's red hot form has to earn him a shot sooner or later. The second big worry is the spinner slot, I really think RSA are unsure about how to use a spinner in ODIs. If they want an all-out, wicket-taking spinner then Tahir is the best bet. If they want a spinner who builds pressure slowly and offers a great deal of control then Botha is the clear man for the job. With Peterson, I really think they are just opting for someone who is neither and is just being played because he is a left-arm spinner turning it away from the right-handers. That's not a great policy. Kirsten is a smart man, hopefully he makes a decision either way and brings either Tahir or Botha in to the team permanently. I would say play Tahir on subcontinent tracks and Botha in NZ, AUS, SA, ENG. |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 29 February 2012 at 11:50pm
| Another clinical display from the Proteas and a brilliant spell of bowling from Morkel. What a horrible collapse from the Kiwis but it was always semi-expected if you pack your middle and lower order with all-rounders. NZL just don't have enough match-winning specialists. Everything seems to be clicking for RSA, bar Kallis making runs. They should really fancy the 3-0 in the Tests to go to number 1. |
Posted By: crabs
Date Posted: 01 March 2012 at 5:04am
| I can't believe the batting collapse. An absolute disgrace. I'm meant to be going to the game in Auckland on Saturday but weather looks like it's gonna be bad. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 01 March 2012 at 6:33am
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A cakewalk in the end , but SA were impressive in that they never gave up when the Black Caps were cruising. I like AB's captaincy as well - bringing back Steyn to make a breakthrough worked perfectly and something I wouldn't have expected from Smith. He also had plenty of men inside the circle once they got on top - very positive cricket and got it's just reward.
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 01 March 2012 at 7:23am
| Yes, AB's captaincy was excellent both with regard to field settings and bowling changes. Now the only major qualm I have with him is why he keeps persisting with Peterson ahead of Botha. Botha bowls really well in the T20s and yet Peterson is the first choice spinner when he is incapable of bowling a consistent and troubling line. He is either too loopy and full or too flat and short. Tahir would be a far superior choice, his List A record is tremendous. Also, since his amazing efforts in the WC, he hasn't played an ODI. How do you drop a guy who has average 10 runs a wicket in all his ODIs to date. I find it really baffling. |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 01 March 2012 at 5:11pm
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yes, it is very surprising that Tahir remains out of the side, quite strange actually because even RSA would know that by playing him they have better chances of winning the game but they still don't! NZL are a decent side but have failed to kick on, they had their moments in both the games but just couldn't capitalize on them, they are already missing Daniel Vettori from this set up and Ross Taylor, arguably their best batsmen is desperately needed in the middle order. They still have some very good players but you feel someone like Stephen Fleming or Nathan Astle is still missing from the side... consistent performers and match winners like them is what NZL needs and someone like Ross Taylor or Guptil or Ryder will have to fill that gap. Also a word on Hashim... once again, Superb!
------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 03 March 2012 at 10:18am
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3-0, RSA complete the clean sweep, another half century for Hashim and Merchant De Lange, well if he bowls this well, and if Tsotsobe can continue to get wickets, would you believe it, Steyn might find himself fighting for his place in the ODI side. Obviously Morne has been among the wickets as well. Good innings too by Albie Morkel, I think now he is fighting for the all rounder's spot along with Parnell. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 05 March 2012 at 10:16am
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Another easy victory for the South Africans and a 5th straight loss for the Black Caps. I didn't expect it to be this easy and after Ryder's latest shananigans I think the rot will continue. They miss Vettori , they simply haven't got a bowler who can stop the bleeding. SA won the game at a canter - they haven't been stretched and I can't see that changing in the test matches. The return of Smith will be interesting - even if he fails I still see SA make total of over 500. ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 05 March 2012 at 11:03am
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sam - don't really think Morkel is fighting for his spot with Parnell. Parnell is meant to be a bowling all rounder whereas I'd say Morkel is in the side more as a batting all-rounder. With Steyn, Morkel, Tsotsobe, Botha (or Tahir), Kallis and a few overs of Duminy, you would rather have a batting all-rounder than a bowling all-rounder. I don't really rate Parnell at all, he is so inconsistent. I'd actually say Morkel is in the side purely for his batting, they hardly ever seem to bowl him with the amount of options RSA have with the ball. A full-strength RSA ODI XI of Smith, Amla, Kallis, Duminy, de Villiers, du Plessis, A Morkel, Botha, Steyn, M Morkel and Tsotsobe looks incredibly strong and is certainly up there with the AUS ODI team. These Tests are gonna be so difficult. I wonder if RSA will chance it and play 4 quicks, not really likely but imagine Steyn, Morkel, Philander and de Lange charging in on a quick, seaming wicket. Not going to be pretty. |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 05 March 2012 at 4:13pm
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may be you are right BP, but honestly I was surprised when Albie was over looked for the WC, they just don't seem to rate him that highly the south africans. Parnell obviously has a lot of work to do, he is a decent player but nothing more than that, and to be in such a strong south african side, you'll have to be more than just decent. I always thought Nel was more deserving than Parnell when Parnell initially got a chance in the RSA team. Tests will not be 3-0, I'd say 2-0 with one draw. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 4:51am
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A wet and freezing cold start to the 1st test with no play in the first session. NZ won the toss and elected to bowl first and got Peterson early to one he played on the move and was plumb in front even though Aleem Dar thought otherwise. The review proved him wrong and he was gone. Smith made 50 against some rank bad bowling and at no time did he move his feet at all !! He eventually fell to an awful shot to a Chris Martin wide that he managed to reach and gift to cover - embarassing! The fun really started then on a pitch with no pace , no lateral movement or swing! Martin then removed the terribly out of form Kallis , 2nd ball and then AB de Villiers 1st ball to be on a hattrick ! He didn't get it , but 3 from 4 was pretty good! Amla looks class and ably supported by Rudolph , who's doing what the others didn't - leaving the wide stuff. Currently 154-4 after 41 overs with Amla 61* and Rudolph 28* That Smith innings had to be seen to be believed - I got up quite late and saw the highlights. If I didn't know better I'd have thought him carrying a serious injury either to his back or leg for him to be so immobile at the crease - bloody awful ! ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 4:53am
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Kiss of death yet again as Amla goes tamely to Vettori , cutting and caught off the edge at slip by Taylor. 160-5 and New Zealand will feel they can get through them now - Boucher in and then not much to come !
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 5:03am
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That becomes 161-6 as Boucher gets run out ! Pretty ironic as it's by a South African , van Wyk , who left his homeland in pursuit of a test chance - he must be laughing himself silly !
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 5:30pm
| Great day for NZL and a pretty shoddy showing by RSA. Could have been far worse to be honest. Against more disciplined bowling, Smith wouldn't have got into double figures the way he was batting and Rudolph would have been out LBW too had Bracewell not over-stepped. Still, a lot of work for RSA to do. If they get to about 250, I still fancy them to turn it around. With their bowling attack and NZL's really weak batting line-up and long tail, I can easily see NZL getting bowled out for under 200. |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 6:09pm
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I agree with BP that RSA still have a good chance to make a comeback, but nonetheless NZL have done extremely well and at the moment are on top. Wonderful bowling by Chris Martin and just the presence of Daniel Vettori seems to bring in more confidence in the NZL team. Work ahead for Steyn and co. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 08 March 2012 at 6:04am
| RSA marginal favourites from here. Martin won't last long in the morning and with scores effectively level and NZL having to bat last, RSA should fancy their chances. Also, how good is Philander? He is so immaculate with his line and length and seems to get prodigious seam movement. He is going to be a major threat in England too. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 08 March 2012 at 6:36am
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At stumps New Zealand find themselves 5 runs ahead with just the one wicket in hand. Intriguing days play with some poor shot selections (Taylor's was a shocker!) and a nice knock from Vettori yet again , before seemingly getting surpised by a short one from Kallis. Much better conditions today , warmer and plenty of sunshine , at 106-2 the home side would've been thinking interms of at least a 100 lead. It's nicely poised , the visitors will be feeling happier of the two sides this evening. ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: crabs
Date Posted: 10 March 2012 at 5:08am
| This is what Test Cricket is all about. Should be a cracker of a final day tomorrow, just hope the weather holds up. You'd have to say it's highly unlikely that NZ could win it, but never say never... |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 10 March 2012 at 11:54am
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should be an interesting day, but RSA are still favts, they way these two teams have played this test, I reckon a draw will be a fair result! ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: bladescape
Date Posted: 10 March 2012 at 2:32pm
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I wouldn't say it's 'highly unlikely'. True, RSA have the edge currently, maybe. But unless NZ start dropping, they have an even chance of struggling through.
------------- You know, I'm trying to decide whether to change my siggy or not... |
Posted By: bladescape
Date Posted: 11 March 2012 at 12:30am
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Huh. Well. Seems that in the end, we'll never know. Still washed out and we're past lunch.
------------- You know, I'm trying to decide whether to change my siggy or not... |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 11 March 2012 at 5:20am
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What a disappointing end to a well-poised game and a fascinating Test match. RSA will be most disappointed since they were easily favourites to win had the full day been available. Nevertheless, there are still positives for both sides and areas for concern too. NZL Positives: Kruger van Wyk was very neat behind the stumps, despite not affecting a dismissal, and his 36 in the 1st innings were crucial runs at a time when RSA were in the ascendancy. Also, Bracewell is continuing to look like a good wicket-taking bowler and Ross/Brendon both seem to be in good touch. NZL Areas for concern: Southee is the major worry - he doesn't seem like picking up a wicket and isn't much of a batsman either. Nicol looked completely out of sorts against Philander and Morkel and despite battling in the 2nd innings, he doesn't look capable of handling it consistently. I imagine this will be a very difficult series for him, unless Brownlie is fit and replaces him, which would then force Brendon to open. RSA Positives: The middle order all look in good form, Boucher added some runs to gain some confidence and Smith, despite looking very ugly doing so, also made a 100. Rudolph is a fine batsman and it was only a matter of time before he scored some substantial runs. I think he will be an excellent addition for RSA at number 6 because he is a fluent stroke-maker but also has experience opening the innings so can negotiate the 2nd new ball. Steyn wasn't brilliant this match (don't know how much his toe affected him) but the seamers look a handful and Tahir bowled with control in the 1st innings. He should become more of a threat in Hamilton in the 3rd and 4th innings if the pitch starts turning more. RSA areas for concern: Alviro Petersen is the only real chink in the armor. His performance in the South African 2nd innings was appalling. It showed he has no desire to battle hard and grind the runs out, opting instead to play a shot a ball. Unless just play a T20 knock were his specific instructions, and I highly doubt they were, his innings was unacceptable to justify opening the innings for a side aiming to become number 1. The unfortunate thing is that I just can't see any viable replacements for him atm. Everyone else's place is pretty much sealed for the coming years (except Boucher who will retire after the England series) but the other openers slot is a big concern. Petersen isn't a long-term option - he just isn't good enough. On the Boucher replacement issue, RSA have messed up here. They have given a central contract to Tsolekile when other keepers like Kuhn and Vilas are absolutely miles ahead of him. Nothing against the guy but it will be truly unfortunate if Tsolekile starts playing Test cricket for South Africa whilst other younger, more talented keeper-batsmen remain kept out. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 12 March 2012 at 10:49am
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Bloody weather !! Such a pity with prospects of a cracking day's play to come. That life though and both teams will move onto Hamilton with positive thoughts. I agree with BP , Petersen doesn't look the part , maybe Neil McKenzie could come back , but that might be something of a backward step. Puttick is another option - a genuine opener , pretty solid with a good temperament. If Petersen has a poor tour Puttick might just make the plane for England. I thought Dale Steyn was struggling through injury and if he's not 100% on Thursday they should leave him out - maybe even send him home and play Tsotsobe. Philander had a fine match , his line and length impeccable and he troubled all the batsmen. Morkel was up and down again - he needs to be more consistent , but I think his gangly frame and rather loose action makes that nigh impossible. Tahir bowled nicely in the 1st innings but there are still plenty of full tosses - he can be milked. One blessing - SA can't become #1 now by 1st April ! ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 12 March 2012 at 1:59pm
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Isn't Puttick already 32 or something around there? It's time they look to a real young prospect who can be in the team long-term because the opening slot is not something you want to fiddle around with. That's the main issue I have with Tsolekile also, aside from the lack of relative talent, is the age. He's 31, he'll probably give you four more years and then they will go to Vilas who will also be 31 by that time and he'll give you four years and then they will go to Quinton de Kock and he'll give you six or seven years. It doesn't make sense. Just give it to Vilas and say OK, we are backing you to be our keeper for the next 10 years or give it to a young talent like de Kock and say if this works well initially, you can be our keeper for the next 15 years. You can't just chop and change every few years. Also, I wonder if RSA have any plans to get du Plessis into the Test side. He has been in excellent form in FC cricket lately and he has looked very assured in the ODI games. I don't see how they'll fit him in though because he can't open and the middle order is secure. Only Rudolph looks in any danger and Duminy is 2nd choice number 6. Finally, on to NZL, they have dropped Southee and either Gillespie, Arnel, Ellis or Nethula look likely to take his place. I will be very interested to see how Nethula goes if picked, he troubled Amla in that one ODI and I wonder if he can do the same in the longer format. |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 12 March 2012 at 5:51pm
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Even if Dale is injured then why play Tsotsobe Sledge? They have Merchant De Lange who has been brilliant in the limited opportunities that he has got so far. As for the opening slot, I'd say Play Rudolph as an opener and get Duminy (or may be Prince again) at no.6. They've got to give Duminy a second chance though, he is a very good player. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 14 March 2012 at 5:37am
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They might not want to play de Lange and Morkel in the same XI because they are similar types of bowlers. I think they will play Dale anyways so long as he isn't troubled greatly by injury. A Dale Steyn at 80% is still easily the best in world cricket. I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't play. Why push Rudolph to open when he has had difficulty there lately and is seeming to fit in nicely at number 6 (2 fifties and 1 hundred in his last 3 innings). He is a natural strokemaker and pretty decent against spin, it's better for now he stays at 6 while he is enjoying success. They have to find an alternative to open. |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 14 March 2012 at 5:09pm
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Right about Rudolph BP! I like Prince and won't mind him at the top, obvious problem is that Prince is 34 and is not a long term solution. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 15 March 2012 at 7:46am
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Well, that was one of the worst collapses I have seen. To go from 133/2 to 133/7 on a benign surface is just ridiculous. The bowling was accurate and probing as always but that period has probably cost NZL the match. They did well to pick up Smith and Steyn to leave RSA on 27/2 but RSA are still in a very good position here, despite the 2 early wickets. The pitch is flat, Kallis and Rudolph are coming off hundreds, Amla and de Villiers have been in fantastic form throughout the tour and Boucher got some very handy runs in Dunedin. They should make hay tomorrow although if NZL can limit SA to a total under 250, they are very much in the game. Can't see it happening though. |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 15 March 2012 at 3:21pm
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NZL did lose the plot and it is very difficult to see them come back in this game, RSA are not a side that'll slip up again and get out cheaply, unless rain plays a significant part, it should be 1-0 to RSA by the end of this match. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 16 March 2012 at 5:25am
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South Africa were fortunate to get any sort of a lead after the top order fell apart ,only de Villiers making a major contribution with 83. New Zealand had them 80-odd for 6 with Gillespie taking 5 wickets on his return to the test side. That they couldn't knock over the tail says a lot about their attack , Morkel , Philander and Tahir all making decent scores to push SA to 253 all out. In their 2nd dig Philander and Steyn knocked over the brittle top order to reduce the home side to a paltry 7-3 ! Their was some sort of recovery before Taylor was lbw to Steyn by an inswinging yorker that hit him on the full. NZ 65-4 at the close of day 2 and still 3 runs adrift , surely SA will run through them tomorrow and finish this before tea. ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 16 March 2012 at 5:31am
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crazy game and wickets falling all the time, unfortunately because of the timings of day games in NZL (start at 3 a.m. IST) I'm not really able to catch much of the action. I agree with Sledge, once again in this series NZL have made a mess of their good position, and are staring at defeat unless their bowlers perform a miracle tomorrow. I'm surprised by Gillespie's good performance, never rated him highly. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 16 March 2012 at 5:38am
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Yep , I've never thought much of Gillespie either Sam. Some of his wickets were rather gifted - Kallis nicking a legside halfvolley to the keeper when hitting it for 4 was much easier! In fact batsmen on both sides have played some awful shots in this series - my pal Grame Smith's dismissal was another howler - an uglier a shot you'd battle to see !
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 16 March 2012 at 9:36am
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I honestly don't even know how Smith averages 50 in Test cricket and 40 in ODIs with that technique. He would have Bradman-like stats if he just had a proper technique. Really shoddy from RSA in the morning but salvaged somewhat thanks to AB and the lower-order. It's important that the tail get into the habit of adding crucial runs because they will need it in the series against England where Broad, Bresnan and Swann will always add a few. Some pretty lackluster batting from NZL too and it will require a heroic effort from someone if NZL are to draw or win this. With the ball starting to reverse and the bowlers all in good form, I can't see NZL adding too much more than 100. RSA will probably knock it off shortly after tea with a couple of wickets down. If they get Williamson early then they can just run through the weak lower middle order and tail. |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 17 March 2012 at 8:59am
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Is this guy Vernon Philander some kind of a super hero??? The amount of wickets he's got in his breif career so far is mind boggling, I've never seen anyone, anyone, get so many wickets in such short time before. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 17 March 2012 at 11:40am
| Another exceptional performance from Vernon Philander and a comfortable win for RSA. Philander is bowling as well as I have seen any bowler bowl in years, sometimes he is bordering on the unplayable. He is intelligent with his delivery choices and small changes of pace, can swing the ball, seam it prodigiously both ways and most of all, he has unbelievable control over his line and length. The only criticism that can be made is that he should work on how he bowls to the tail. He got hit by Trent Boult for 22 in an over in Dunedin and 14 by Gillespie today. Maybe try and perfect the yorker or bowl more bouncers (his bouncer is certainly quite lively). Aside from that, this guy is an absolute gem. Not to mention, he is a capable all-rounder with a good FC record with the bat. If he can develop into a handy lower-order batsman who can consistently score 30s and 40s, it will be excellent for RSA going forward. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 19 March 2012 at 7:31am
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Philander just can't do anything wrong just now - he really has the golden touch! Two 10 wicket hauls after only 6 tests is quite something , his control is marvellous and he bowls with a lot of thought. The ball he bowled to the wicketkeeper that he left was great thinking - 5 away swingers and then the one that went the other way and took off stump was terrific ! NZ were poor though and showed little fight , Williamson apart. I can't see them winning the final test , in fact I can't see them drawing it either unless the weather intervenes. The way that Smith and Amla raced to the target was ominous - I expect SA to score big next time. ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: mystery
Date Posted: 19 March 2012 at 11:57am
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SA have too many wicket taking bowlers Steyn is unlucky since Philander has come in Steyn does not get a chance to take 5 wickets and Morkel hardly gets to bowl really a wonderful pace attack. SA lineup looks so good and balance they should easily be no.1. ------------- Rohit Sharma - What the world has seen is gear 1, gear speed 2,3,4,5,7,8,9 to be witnessed in IPL only. |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 19 March 2012 at 1:12pm
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It's pretty close between RSA and ENG. RSA have a better middle order and a better pace attack. ENG have the edge when it comes to the spinner, the batting ability of the tail and the batting ability of the wicket-keeper. I'd say ENG take it overall though because they have one great opener in Cook and one good opener in Strauss whereas RSA have one great opener in Smith and a very ordinary opener in Petersen. Against NZL, this won't be that much of a problem. The rest of the batsmen can cover it up and still add way more runs than NZL can muster. In a very tight series against ENG, where there is little room for a weak link, the lack of runs from the openers could be the difference. |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 19 March 2012 at 4:09pm
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Given the conditions in ENG, the spinner's spot won't matter as much BP and even if it does then Imran Tahir is no less, The batting ability of tail, Steyn, Morne, Philander are not as good as Bresnan, Swann and Broad but they are no mug with the bat either. Batting wise Prior may be better but when it comes to glove work, Boucher is among the best in history. ENG v RSA should be a thriller of a series this English summer, but I'd surely put RSA as favorites.
------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 20 March 2012 at 7:44am
It'll be a close contest Sam , but I guarantee that England will be the bookies favourites simply because they're at home. I expect Smith to have a torrid time against Anderson and Broad , hopefully exposing the middle order early. No doubt that the English openers are a better pair and it'll be crucial for Cook and Strauss to get them off to a decent start. I'm a tad based , but I'll take the home side to win 2-1. Footnote : Let's not hijack this thread with talk of the Summer's cricket fellas !  ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 20 March 2012 at 4:24pm
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I'll go with 2-1 to RSA sledge! Yes, coming back to NZL-RSA... lets not forget NZL still have a chance to level the series when the third test starts, I must say the Kiwi's have fought, but they just couldn't get the consistency going. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 21 March 2012 at 2:14pm
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As a South Africa supporter, it's about time we get a big moment to cheer after years of WC heart-break. It will be a big achievement if RSA can go to number 1 by beating England in England. We'll see what happens though. I sense ENG may just be a bit too strong but it will be an awesome series whatever the outcome. Back on-topic to the match against NZL at Wellington, plenty of dodgy weather around lately at the Basin. I expect quite a few overs will be lost to rain over the course of the match so RSA will have to repeat their Hamilton performance if they are to get a result here. With NZL strengthening their batting at the expense of a quick, they might be slightly harder to bowl out and the wind may also prove to be a challenge for the South African pace attack. The draw is probably the most likely result. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 22 March 2012 at 8:15am
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The weather forecast is pretty grim , but the visitors needed less than 3 days to win the last one and could triumph yet again. The pitch might well be lively and that could make batting rather tough - I think the SA batsmen will cope better against what is a less penetrative attack. A draw will do me though as I've had a decent wager on SA winning the series !
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: 1Daz
Date Posted: 23 March 2012 at 3:00am
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A wasted morning session by the NZ bowlers. Not very impressed with Taylors field settings either tbh. As my Sth African mate would say.... CRAZY MATE ------------- Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them! |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 23 March 2012 at 5:12am
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136-2 when bad light stopped play. Graeme Smith controversially given out , caught behind to one he plainly missed. That it was referred after Aleem Dar gave it out and was not overturned will add fuel to those that are highly critical of DRS. My opinion is that it was an awful shot - a football could have passed between bat and pad , nevermind a cricket ball! Smith's technique (and I use that term loosely) seems to be getting worse , he looks like a rank amatuer. No Kallis , out with a stiff neck , so Duminy gets another chance and is batting at 4. He's still there with Petersen , who has been very circumspect - he needs a score and he knows it. New Zealand's bowling was really poor in the 1st session , which didn't start until after lunch because of a wet outfield. At 1-0 down you'd think they'd have worked around the clock to start on time , but there obviously isn't much money in NZ cricket. No Tahir either , de Lange completing an all seam attack on what is a green wicket. It's a solid start by the visitors , New Zealand have to get their lengths right tomorrow , all of them struggled today. ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 23 March 2012 at 11:00am
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Woeful shot from Smith but honestly, these 3rd umpire decisions are so frustrating. I'm not saying it as a RSA fan, it's just shocking decision-making that hurts the game. How can anyone give that out is beyond me. I don't blame Dar because there was a sound but these sorts of random sounds occur frequently. The 3rd umpire saw a Hot Spot which showed nothing and saw the clear visual evidence that there was a gap between bat and ball and yet gives it out. He's just given it out because Dar said it's out, even though the evidence points to it being not out. That's plain silliness, if it looks like it's not out then it is not out. Still a good day for RSA all said but I can't see this ending in anything but a draw. More rain forecast for Day 2 so by the time RSA likely finish their first innings, we'll be well into Day 3. Then it's just a case of NZL not completely capitulating and holding on for a draw. Sledge - Yeah, Smith's shot was pretty bad but you'll get that from time to time with him. The fact is he averages 50 over nearly 100 Test matches as an opener, batting mostly on testing wickets when the ball is new, swinging and seaming. Taking that into consideration, that's a quite exemplary record. When he goes out and scores ugly 100s like in Dunedin, no one complains. Along with Cook, he is the best opener in the world, regardless of how bad his technique can look at times. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 26 March 2012 at 8:13am
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Smith's record is impressive BP , but as a purist I'd be happier if he played straight ! So after day 4 SA are batting again and in complete control ,leading by 274 with all 10 wickets in hand. New Zealand lost their last 6 wickets for 50-odd and avoided the follow on by a single run. More bad news for the home side , Taylor got a lifter off Morkel that cracked him full on the wrist - X-ray confirm a fractured ulna. So they'll be a key batsman down tomorrow when SA eventually declare. Leading 1-0 I can't see SA giving the hosts much of a sniff , maybe they'll bat for 90 minutes and give themselves 5 hours to bowl them out. New Zealand's 1st innings total of 275 is their highest of the series , so I can't see them winning this one even if SA make a sporting declaration , setting them something around 350. A final word for Philander - another amazing effort , taking 6 wickets yet again - the lad is on fire ! ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 26 March 2012 at 8:25pm
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Never in my 20 years of cricket watching have I seen someone perform as good as Philander and with such consistency... may be only Shane Bond will come some what close, Philander is a super hero. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: MalhotraRaj84
Date Posted: 26 March 2012 at 9:06pm
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Look at the record for fastest 50 wickets, he has smashed them all, surrounded only by bowlers who are of 18th century... surreal. Hope it does not abruptly end like what happend to Mendis... don't tour India soon
.Flying careers flop , while struggling careers blossom.------------- Race to No 1 again ... started! |
Posted By: mystery
Date Posted: 27 March 2012 at 12:26am
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Dont worry about him Raj after the India tour he might became a all-rounder
------------- Rohit Sharma - What the world has seen is gear 1, gear speed 2,3,4,5,7,8,9 to be witnessed in IPL only. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 27 March 2012 at 6:00am
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A minimum of 4 overs left in the match and NZ are 6 down (effectively 7 because of Taylor's injury). Williamson the hero , making a defiant unbeaten 100 , although he's been dropped three times. Bracewell still there as well and it looks like they'll get the draw. Earlier on today SA upped the tempo with de Villers in particularly brutal form , scoring 68 off 49 balls. Duminy chipped in with a fine cameo of 33 off 23 balls with 3 enormous sixes , two of which went out of the park! That set up the declaration and then came a blistering spell from Morne Morkel that claimed all 6 wickets to fall to date. They don't fancy him at all , going at under 1.5 runs per over in a really sustained hostile spell. His figures right now are 16-6-23-6 - a fantastic effort and eventual reward after being pretty consistent throught the series. So the weather wins the day , but for New Zealand fans there's no getting away from it - SA are on a different level even though the series in all likelihood will end 1-0. ------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: Mikey
Date Posted: 27 March 2012 at 7:33am
| Not the most successful series for South Africa, they probably would have liked at least two wins, but that just shows both the resilience of the Kiwis and the poor weather conditions at time in NZ. Lots of positive performance with the bat, while Philander and Morkel are proving to be more and more menacing every tour. Still can't believe how well Philander has performed, really mind boggling. |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 27 March 2012 at 4:34pm
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A very very good innings by Williamson, he is quite a find for NZL this lad. He has been very solid against the best bowling attack in the world and that too consistently. Morne showed his cklass today, an excellent spell, took all 6 wickets but it just wasn't enough at the end. Yes, NZL are a resilient side and 1-0 may not be exactly what RSA would have liked, but t be honest the difference in the teams was there for all to see and RSA won't mind leaving NZL with series wins in all 3 formats. 2-1; 3-0; 1-0. not bad at all. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 28 March 2012 at 1:54am
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Great innings by Williamson. Aside from his tendency to defend balls well outside off-stump, this guy is a real star prospect for NZL. Should have been out numerous times throughout the day though, a reprieve given by the 3rd umpire for a catch that was taken imo and plenty of dropped catches (including some from AB!). A bit disappointing not to win 2-0 or 3-0 but to be fair, the weather did greatly affect things. Had weather not interrupted, RSA would most probably have won at Dunedin and would undoubtedly have won in Wellington so the 1-0 doesn't accurately reflect the relative performances. RSA showed their class in all departments and everything is falling into place nicely. Won both Test and ODI series against SL and now won T20s, ODIs and Tests against NZL in NZL. A good run going and would be nice to cap it all off with a win against IND in the meaningless T20 match played in a few days time. Then it's time to focus on ENG and taking that no. 1 spot. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 28 March 2012 at 1:38pm
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Yes , the next real cricket for the South Africans come in July - that's some way off! In the meantime they can inflate their bank accounts with the circus that is IPL. I'm still miffed that the upcoming test series is only 3 tests - a 5 test series between the two best sides playing the longer format would have been truly mouth watering.
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 28 March 2012 at 1:56pm
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Yes , the next real cricket for the South Africans come in July - that's some way off! In the meantime they can inflate their bank accounts with the circus that is IPL. I'm still miffed that the upcoming test series is only 3 tests - a 5 test series between the two best sides playing the longer format would have been truly mouth watering.
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 28 March 2012 at 6:27pm
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RSA could become the No.1 test side in the world if ENG lose the series to SLN which is very much possible, still it will be the battle between the top ranked test teams. Next two months are very boring for cricket because of the meaningless IPL, I tell you have don't even care 1% about who wins the IPL, but I'm still going to watch one DC game, possibly the one against King's XI. also by 4000th post this, has been a wonderful journey this at Cricket World!!! and I hope for more, God willing!  ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 28 March 2012 at 10:29pm
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Nice job on 4000 posts sam. Yeah, Tony Greig was saying how RSA go to number 1 if ENG lose here but I hope it doesn't happen like that. It would just be pointless because ENG will reclaim it in the series against WI. I want to see RSA beat ENG in ENG and take the number 1 position by beating the former number 1 side and keep it for a meaningful amount of time. It wouldn't be worthwhile if RSA get it just because ENG are rubbish in the sub-continent. |
Posted By: Sledger
Date Posted: 29 March 2012 at 10:55am
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SA are a more rounded side than England. The two attacks have match winners and are potent on any surface but where the South Africans are out front is in the batting department in Asia. They have three proven batsmen who have no hangups against top quality spin in Kallis , Amla and de Villiers . Their record on the subcontinent leaves England for dead and if they beat England in England they'll deserve the number 1 ranking.
------------- Mental disintegration works for me !! |
Posted By: MalhotraRaj84
Date Posted: 29 March 2012 at 4:42pm
I know it is bit harsh , England have been close even in the matches that they have lost, but then No 1 status comes with a price, while they haven't won anything since dethroning India from that spot.
Retaining No 1 spot is not a joke, that is what I had said earlier.
------------- Race to No 1 again ... started! |
Posted By: MalhotraRaj84
Date Posted: 29 March 2012 at 5:02pm
No BP, If Eng vs SL ( even if 2nd Test is drawn)... SA - 116;ENG-114 (Assuming Aus wins against WI).
In this case even if Eng beats WI 3-0 , still SA and ENG will be level on points.
So all this depends on how WI will play against Aus, If WI draw/win the series agaisnt AUS ... they will have higher points , then ENG beating them will fetch them good points.On the other side if WI looses 3-0 to Aus, they will slide further down and ENG beating WI 3-0 will not fetch them anything.
There is lot of possibilities
http://icc-cricket.yahoo.net/match_zone/test_predictor.php - http://icc-cricket.yahoo.net/match_zone/test_predictor.php
However I expect WI to SHOCK everyone this time, they won't go down easily.The new spinner - Sunil, and couple of other promising new batsmans and a fit Ravi Rampaul in English conditions could be good enough.
We will see if they have really improved against the Aussies. ------------- Race to No 1 again ... started! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 29 March 2012 at 6:37pm
| Very interesting Raj. Why the hell does this defeat for ENG cost them 4 points but an additional defeat against SL just costs them an extra point? Looks like they will be in trouble if they don't get a win at Colombo. It seems beating low-ranked sides makes very little difference in terms of points but losing to them can cost you big. |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 29 March 2012 at 6:44pm
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Well, I expect RSA to be the No.1 side for quite some time, there aren't too many teams that can challenge them and honestly I feel RSA are destined to be the No.1 side in the world after all the wonderful cricket they've played over the years. ENG will have their chances though, they have RSA and IND lined up, if they do well in these two series they can still be No.1 by the end of the year... difficult, but it is in ENG's hands. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: MalhotraRaj84
Date Posted: 29 March 2012 at 7:18pm
Absolutely BP, the system is designed in such a way that No1. can hardly breath easy (rightly so), and as you said it gets worse when a No 1. looses against a lower ranked team.
The first loss is making England lose 4 points , because system assumes that this scoreline will remain as it is by the end of sereis( assuming second match is a draw). If ENG make up for it and win the second one , then the scoreline will be 1-1 , In that case ENG will lose only 2 points.
Now if ENG lose the second test too they are going to lose one additional point for the final match, coz they have already lost the series(and the points that come with Series victories).
Actually if this series was 0-0 drawn series , still ENG would have lost 2 point while SL would have gained 3 points. That is the cost of being No.1 ------------- Race to No 1 again ... started! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 30 March 2012 at 1:14am
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Pretty decent system I guess, thanks for the explanation. Main problem I have though is deducting points for a draw. Why should you lose 2 points for a drawn series? RSA probably lost some points for drawing 2 Tests against NZL and that frustrates me because it was mainly down to the weather. It seems silly when you dominate a Test match but fail to win due to rain and then lose points for that. Also, do you know whether home/away Test matches are factored in, i.e. do you get more points for wins away from home? |
Posted By: MalhotraRaj84
Date Posted: 30 March 2012 at 3:43am
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Unfortunately it does not take into account the closeness of the match or rain/bad light. Lose by 1 run or lose by an innings it does not matter for the ranking sysem, this esp for a top ranked team.I wish there was a system which could actually give a closeness factor.
No , it does not differenciate anyting between home and away.The reason being - it assumes that team will tour one another during 3/4 year period.
The evaluation period starts every Aug and dates back to 3/4 years. Current year ( which is growing) and previous years get 100% weightage, while oldest 2 years weigh only 50% to results.
For example, this Aug 2011,
Sep 2010 to Aug 2011 - 100% wieghtage
Sep 2008 to Aug 2010 - 50% weightage
Note - Above only 3 years
Current state, i.e Mar 2012
Sep 2011 to Mar 2012 - 100% weightage
Sep 2010 to Aug 2011 - 100% weightage
Sep 2008 to Aug 2010 - 50% weightage Note : Now 3 years 7 months are considered.
So this Aug 2012 , all the points/matches accumulated for Sep 2008 to Aug 2009 will be dropped off.Theat is the reason you will see rankings behaving crazy during August, but 99% of the times worthy team will get to No 1. spot. For example this time England became No 1 . because thier past three years record was better compared to India at this August (Obviously... England had beaten India 4-0 by Aug end, and that would count for 100% weightage and spoil India 3 years record in comparision to England's during September 2011 re-calculations), morevoer they got good points when they beat India 4-0 (as India was the No 1 team during that period).
If you recall , before the England series , India- 125 (1st pos);Eng-117(3rd pos) at Aug 2011, after the end of series Eng-125(1st pos);Ind-117(3rd pos)
Yes BP , the only two loophole that I too saw was Home/Away matches and Some weightage for close matches/ concession for Rain/Bad light.I too felt the same when I understood the rankings system.
There are some flaws , but I have been following it from 2007/8 , I can say one thing about the ranking. It gives correct picture of the performances for sure, however it does not give credit to close matches.
(simple 3 page PDF)
http://static.icc-cricket.yahoo.net/ugc/documents/DOC_316C4ECFB1FDC31284D768163CA1CBCD_1295335858633_724.pdf - http://static.icc-cricket.yahoo.net/ugc/documents/DOC_316C4ECFB1FDC31284D768163CA1CBCD_1295335858633_724.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICC_Test_Championship - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICC_Test_Championship
------------- Race to No 1 again ... started! |
Posted By: MalhotraRaj84
Date Posted: 30 March 2012 at 4:25am
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So if you look at the ranking system closely there is a third flaw too , it is not moving average of fixed period.
Now England will have to carry the burden of losing to Pak (3-0) and SL( assuming if they lose) till 2013 Aug which will account to 100% weightage, At the same time observe that India's close escape with England loss ( as the match was competed before Sep 01 2011) they will end up paying only 50% weightage post Sep 2012 , till then they will have to bear 100% weightage for England debacle. They can't escape the 4-0 loss to Aus till Sep 2013, but it is not that damaging as India did not lose much points ... courtesy.... they were not No 1 by then.
However everything evens out evnetually, 2007 India in England series was also completed by Aug-13-2007, so the good work of winning 1-0 overseas was valid to India for only 1 year on 100% weightage. ------------- Race to No 1 again ... started! |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 30 March 2012 at 6:03pm
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Quite some analysis that Raj!!! Anyways, I too agree that the Ranking system is mostly fair and gives an accurate picture of the standings. Sorry for using this thread for the one off Ind-RSA game, this thread anyhow involves RSA so I thought I can post here. 219/4 by the proteas, Indian bowlers get murdered on a flat track, Ingram and kallis doing bulk of the scoring and some cameos by Ontong, Behradien, Albie and Levi... a very formidable score, India will still back themselves to win, they've got Kohli, Uthappa and the brutal Yusuf Pathan! ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: MalhotraRaj84
Date Posted: 30 March 2012 at 7:37pm
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The game could be called off... nothing surprising with the horrid luck that India is having of late.Either they play badly or one fo the other things spoils it.For Indian players this is nothing new, rain hardly helped them anytime. ------------- Race to No 1 again ... started! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 31 March 2012 at 6:06am
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Raj, just be happy this is a pointless one-off T20 match and not a crucial ICC WC group stage match. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened had rain not interrupted, I still fancied RSA because 148 off 12 would have taken some going, even on that flat track. A good performance from a primarily South African B team. A nice knock from Ingram and some excellent bowling from Lopsy were the real highlights. Even a jet-lagged Kallis managed to boost his T20 average by feasting on the Indian bowlers. What's Dhoni doing bowling Raina for the last over? That just shows what an atrocious attack India have. Can't even rely upon the main seamers to get the job done so had to turn to part-timers. Effectively a full-strength IND T20I side travels 4000 miles to get thrashed around the park by a South African B side before ultimately losing, thanks to D-L no less. What a dismal end to a horrific run of away matches! |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 31 March 2012 at 9:36am
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Agree with BP, that really was an "A" team and Indian bowlers still got thrashed, no surprises there though, you expect that from the Indian bowlers! I also agree with Raj, India have been a bit unlucky in the recent past, The one ODI in which they looked good in ENG got washed off, in CB series they won 3 games against SLN, but SLN managed to do better against AUS and made it to the finals, in Asia cup I thought they played better than my favt team Pak but still lost out on the finals berth and now this, although they might still have lost this game, it was very difficult no matter how flat the wicket but then they never got a fair chance to go for it! ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: MalhotraRaj84
Date Posted: 31 March 2012 at 4:27pm
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South African A Side ? Bulk of the scoring was done by Ingram and Kallis who aren't a A Side. Levi since his 45 ball odd century (against NZ) has been first choice for SA in T20I.Everyone knows Albie Morkel's destructive powers.
That leaves with Behardein and Ontong who collectively scored 42 of 18 balls ... obviously after Kallis and Ingram's strong platform ... and we know what track was all about.
Agreed Kallis was Jet lagged, but I guess entire Indian team were more Jet lagged then him , If you count SA's A team so much (I see only Ontong,Behardein and Vilas), should an Indian fan say we too missed ZAK,Ishant and Yadav? Then do we cry about Shewag,Yuvi's absense ?
The match was not completed , India were 71/0 in 7.5 overs, Gambhir was going great guns while Uthappa was holding one end up. No doubt asking rate was too much but all 10 wickets were in hand, the only bowler 'Tsosobe' who looked good had already completed 3 overs...Anyway I did not want to read too much into one off T20I,but for some of the comment about 'A' Team, here are my views. ------------- Race to No 1 again ... started! |
Posted By: mystery
Date Posted: 31 March 2012 at 4:52pm
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Only blind Indian fans would say they missed Zaheer, Ishant, Yadav or Sehwag. BP and Sam are right it was SA b team as they were missing so many key players otherwise a score of 250 was very much possible. ------------- Rohit Sharma - What the world has seen is gear 1, gear speed 2,3,4,5,7,8,9 to be witnessed in IPL only. |
Posted By: MalhotraRaj84
Date Posted: 31 March 2012 at 6:23pm
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Oh , I forgot to tell .... I literally don't read few posts too... Those who use provocative lines,whose sole intent is always to instigate.
I know I have some disagreements with BP and Sam over Indian bowling ... but I like discussing with them as there is always a respect with which the discussion is held.That is the way it should be. ------------- Race to No 1 again ... started! |
Posted By: mystery
Date Posted: 31 March 2012 at 11:35pm
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Its really strange all i did was to agree with BP and Sam that SA were missing key players and Indian bowling is worst than BD's and anyone who thinks India missed Zaheer, Ishant, Yadav or Sehwag with their current form they must be blind.
------------- Rohit Sharma - What the world has seen is gear 1, gear speed 2,3,4,5,7,8,9 to be witnessed in IPL only. |
Posted By: MalhotraRaj84
Date Posted: 01 April 2012 at 6:09am
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Many of the SA players have to make long journey to India for IPL, while Indians make long return journey for IPL-V. ------------- Race to No 1 again ... started! |
Posted By: sam_ahmed
Date Posted: 01 April 2012 at 9:01am
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Take it easy guys! All I can say is that India have gone down considerably in the last one year, one of the worst periods in Indian cricket history, and just when the expectations were very high. having said that I think all Asian teams are struggling in some way or the other, India struggling with their bowling and to some extent batting also, Pakistan struggling with their entire ODI set up, SLN struggling to perform consistently, BAN have improved but still have a mountain to climb. ------------- God is a better planner... so whenever u'r plan fails, cheer up... God has a better plan for you! |
Posted By: MalhotraRaj84
Date Posted: 01 April 2012 at 11:09am
Results are pretty clear what batsman did. ------------- Race to No 1 again ... started! |
Posted By: MalhotraRaj84
Date Posted: 01 April 2012 at 3:41pm
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Infact all teams have suffered a bit , Eng unable to show anything of No 1 quality post becoming No1, Aussies struggling against WI.To an extent RSA has performed better than all others (but nothing great) , but then they too could not close the deal properly against NZ or win against the Aussies.
------------- Race to No 1 again ... started! |
Posted By: BackwardPoint
Date Posted: 02 April 2012 at 12:42am
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Aussies have struggled against WI as they are experimenting with new players and combinations in the absence of their captain against a determined WI outfit. England have a problem with spin in the subcontinent, simple as that. I think you're stretching a bit with RSA, all their results and performances since the WC have been perfectly fine. The fact is all these teams are still miles ahead of India. My point about the A/B team is that most of the RSA players in that match are not part of the first XI. Only Levi, Botha, Albie and Tsotsobe can be considered consistent regulars in the South African T20I first XI. The rest are fringe players and debutants all being given opportunities. Kallis as well isn't normally part of the T20 side because Cricket SA want to reduce his workload so he can keep going until WC in 2015. On the other hand, that IND line-up is pretty much the same team we can expect to see in Sri Lanka, maybe barring a small change here or there. |
Posted By: MalhotraRaj84
Date Posted: 02 April 2012 at 3:52am
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For me reasons do not count BP, these things happens and are part and parcel of cricket. Infact when India toured England they had so many injuries during the match that they ended up playing 1-2 player short in the match a couple of times. Not counting the half fit players who came out of injuries straight into the match.Post world cup they have always been missing few key players in Tests/ODI's. (Forget about the selection and out of form issues of entire Indian middle order even in sub-continent). So NONE of the reasons will count, India lost 4-0 to Eng and Aus and that is about it. The point is, neither SA,ENG or AUS have shown any complete domination during the same period.While other teams can't even be considered for comparison (first let them come to the top 3/4 level... they are still far behind). On SA T20 squad, only ABD is a regular who is missed (maybe 1 or 2 more), other than that RSA does not know what it's best T20I Squad is. For example Smith,Styen hardly play T20I. Philander last played his T20I way back in 2007's. Amala has not shown the same consistency in shortest format and still unproven, while Duminey is just back with a comeback. ------------- Race to No 1 again ... started! |