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MalhotraRaj84 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: South Africa in New Zealand (2012)
    Posted: 31 March 2012 at 4:27pm
South African A Side ? Bulk of the scoring was done by Ingram and Kallis who aren't a A Side. Levi since his 45 ball odd century (against NZ) has been first choice for SA in T20I.Everyone knows Albie Morkel's destructive powers.
 
That leaves with Behardein and Ontong who collectively scored 42 of 18 balls ... obviously after Kallis and Ingram's strong platform ... and we know what track was all about.
 
Agreed Kallis was Jet lagged, but I guess entire Indian team were more Jet lagged then him , If you count SA's A team so much (I see only Ontong,Behardein and Vilas), should an Indian fan say we too missed ZAK,Ishant and Yadav? Then do we cry about Shewag,Yuvi's absense ?
 
The match was not completed , India were 71/0 in 7.5 overs, Gambhir was going great guns while Uthappa was holding one end up. No doubt asking rate was too much but all 10 wickets were in hand, the only bowler 'Tsosobe' who looked good had already completed 3 overs...Anyway I did not want to read too much into one off T20I,but for some of the comment about 'A' Team, here are my views.


Edited by MalhotraRaj84 - 31 March 2012 at 4:28pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2012 at 4:52pm
Only blind Indian fans would say they missed Zaheer, Ishant, Yadav or Sehwag. BP and Sam are right it was SA b team as they were missing so many key players otherwise a score of 250 was very much possible.


Edited by mystery - 31 March 2012 at 11:16pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2012 at 6:23pm
Oh , I forgot to tell .... I literally don't read few posts too... Those who use provocative lines,whose sole intent is always to instigate. 
 
I know I have some disagreements with BP and Sam over Indian bowling ... but I like discussing with them as there is always a respect with which the discussion is held.That is the way it should be.


Edited by MalhotraRaj84 - 31 March 2012 at 6:37pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2012 at 11:35pm
Its really strange all i did was to agree with BP and Sam that SA were missing key players and Indian bowling is worst than BD's and anyone who thinks India missed Zaheer, Ishant, Yadav or Sehwag with their current form they must be blind.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2012 at 6:09am

Many of the SA players have to make long journey to India for IPL, while Indians make long return journey for IPL-V.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2012 at 9:01am
Take it easy guys! All I can say is that India have gone down considerably in the last one year, one of the worst periods in Indian cricket history, and just when the expectations were very high.

having said that I think all Asian teams are struggling in some way or the other, India struggling with their bowling and to some extent batting also, Pakistan struggling with their entire ODI set up, SLN struggling to perform consistently, BAN have improved but still have a mountain to climb.


Edited by sam_ahmed - 01 April 2012 at 9:05am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2012 at 11:09am
Originally posted by sam_ahmed

having said that I think all Asian teams are struggling in some way or the other, India struggling with their bowling and to some extent batting also
No Sam, it is not some extent , it is to great extent that their batting has suffered.

Results are pretty clear what batsman did.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2012 at 3:41pm
Infact all teams have suffered a bit , Eng unable to show anything of No 1 quality post becoming No1, Aussies struggling against WI.To an extent RSA has performed better than all others (but nothing great) , but then they too could not close the deal properly against NZ or win against the Aussies.

Edited by MalhotraRaj84 - 01 April 2012 at 4:03pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 12:42am
Aussies have struggled against WI as they are experimenting with new players and combinations in the absence of their captain against a determined WI outfit. England have a problem with spin in the subcontinent, simple as that. I think you're stretching a bit with RSA, all their results and performances since the WC have been perfectly fine. The fact is all these teams are still miles ahead of India.

My point about the A/B team is that most of the RSA players in that match are not part of the first XI. Only Levi, Botha, Albie and Tsotsobe can be considered consistent regulars in the South African T20I first XI. The rest are fringe players and debutants all being given opportunities. Kallis as well isn't normally part of the T20 side because Cricket SA want to reduce his workload so he can keep going until WC in 2015. On the other hand, that IND line-up is pretty much the same team we can expect to see in Sri Lanka, maybe barring a small change here or there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 3:52am
For me reasons do not count BP, these things happens and are part and parcel of cricket. Infact when India toured England they had so many injuries during the match that they ended up playing 1-2 player short in the match a couple of times. Not counting the half fit players who came out of injuries straight into the match.Post world cup they have always been missing few key players in Tests/ODI's. (Forget about the selection and out of form issues of entire Indian middle order even in sub-continent).

So NONE of the reasons will count, India lost 4-0 to Eng and Aus and that is about it.

The point is, neither SA,ENG or AUS have shown any complete domination during the same period.While other teams can't even be considered for comparison (first let them come to the top 3/4 level... they are still far behind).

On SA T20 squad, only ABD is a regular who is missed (maybe 1 or 2 more), other than that RSA does not know what it's best T20I Squad is. For example Smith,Styen hardly play T20I. Philander last played his T20I way back in 2007's. Amala has not shown the same consistency in shortest format and still unproven, while Duminey is just back with a comeback.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 3:58am
I am not stretching on RSA, I have given the full credit to them as they have been the best, while at the same time they drew 1-1 with Aus, and against NZ they should have closed the match [I agree there were rain interruptions, but then close to 3.5-4 days were played in those matches ... Styen,Morkel and Philander on those NZ pitches ... they should have won,we saw NZ fight back against them, that is what I meant]
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 10:09am
So now injuries became a reason of Indian lost against England LOL
Can please someone tell me which key player apart from Yuvraj Singh in Odi was missing? and what about test? and Pakistan has not done badly even with so weak them infact they have done far better than few teams who have so many heavyweights and NZ batting lineup is strong it was really difficult to get a result on Wellington pitch inside 4 days even than it was only becuz of drop catches that NZ got away SA deserved to win the series 3/0 but was unlucky.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 5:34pm
I agree with BP, that RSA side had only 4-5 regular players in the side, moreover, Steyn and Morne wouldn't have allowed India to get off to the kind of start they got!

Originally posted by MalhotraRaj84


The point is, neither SA,ENG or AUS have shown any complete domination during the same period.While other teams can't even be considered for comparison (first let them come to the top 3/4 level... they are still far behind).

That is a very very arrogant statement made by Raj, and made in complete negligence, to say that other teams are not even comparable to IND, ENG, AUS and RSA, when Pakistan have routed ENG 3-0 and India have been blanked in two away series 4-0, 4-0, that too by humongous margins is ... well... hard to explain. 

In fact in all honesty, RSA and PAK have been the two formidable teams during the last 12-18 months
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 6:24pm

My statments were pretty clear to explain that I am not giving any reason (like others who always try to find a reason in loss), according to me loss is a loss. I never accept any reason.That has been my standards.

Sam, don't get emotional ... I am pretty clear in what I said. I know PAK have improved a lot and even I have told that, but one series against ENG in sub-continent conditions.Well if you remember you own words, you said when India beat ENG in ODI's at home ... If I am right you said "All it takes a is spinner like Jadeja".Neither I am belittling Jadeja's or Pakistan's great 3-0 victory against England.
 
However , for me the last two matches were close, and I mean that ... one little partnership , it was touch and go.That is the reason I would not like to jump the gun and say Pak have become a team to beat. If they had beaten them hands down (like what they did in first test), surely I would count them a force to rekon.
 
No doubt they have improved leaps and bounds , but I would give some more time and see how they perform. I would not count much on ZIM and BD series, while against WI they drew and commendable draw against RSA in UAE ( if I am right).So all in all to me they have improved , but how much ... I need time.
 
England on other hand have improved against spin, just that they do not have results to show for. Had they batted first on last three tests, you never know ... what would have been.Maybe entire perception on ENG's ability against spin would have changed.
 
One thing is for sure, when they came to India (ODI's) they were very very bad against it. I guess England team and Coach have worked a lot against spin, however they still fell short.


Edited by MalhotraRaj84 - 02 April 2012 at 6:27pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 7:37pm
There are always reasons behind a loss Raj and it is important for teams to find that, otherwise they'll never know how to improve on them. The reason could be as difficult as "you're good but the opposition is brilliant" and you've still got to find ways to catch up with them!

My point on Pakistan is simple, they haven't lost a test series in last 20 months, even if you exclude ZIM and BAN, they have drawn series against WI and RSA, while they have beaten NZL, SLN and ENG... how are they not even comparable to say IND who have been clueless in 8 test matches abroad is quite simply impossible to explain.




Edited by sam_ahmed - 02 April 2012 at 7:37pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 9:04pm
I agree Sam Pakistan dont have a option of playing home which makes it even more difficult for them to do well still to not lose a series for almost 2 years is amazing that too with such a weak team without any star player apart from Ajmal and on other side India who have so many heavyweights still struggle to win a single match.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2012 at 5:58pm
I won't mind Pakistan not having star players as long as they are winning mystery! when they had star players they hardly won.

Anyways, sorry for corrupting this thread with stuff other than RSA and NZL, only reason was the one off T20 involving India! Embarrassed
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