Forum Home Forum Home » The Archives » Archived Match Threads » World Cup 2007
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: The Ideal WC Format
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedThe Ideal WC Format

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
scuudz View Drop Down
Wicket-Keeper
Wicket-Keeper
Avatar

Joined: 12 March 2007
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1754
Post Options Post Options   Quote scuudz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Ideal WC Format
    Posted: 02 April 2007 at 7:17pm
Since the Cricket World Cup is still in its infancy (compared to say the Football World Cup), the ideal format for the world cup has not yet been decided (atleast I dont think it has).  The former chief of the BCCI, I.S. Bindra has criticised the current format citing the fact that India lost out on a place in the Super 8s just because they had one bad day and said the idea format was used in the 1992 WC. 
 
Personally, I think the current format is great and Bindra is just bitter because India did not make it through.  However, I wonder what format the ICC will approve when more countries get involved.  Any ideas, folks?
Back to Top
Freddie View Drop Down
Wicket-Keeper
Wicket-Keeper
Avatar
That's the wrong ball you're hitting

Joined: 17 September 2006
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1054
Post Options Post Options   Quote Freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 7:50pm
I'm happy with the way the format of the cup is currently but if I had one moan it would be that teams shouldn't carry points forward to the Super 8's as it gives the others an unfair advantage. Like for example South Africa are a lot better than the West Indies but because of the groups West Indies only had to beat Ireland to carry forward two points but South Africa don't carry them forward because they lost to Australia.
On extended leave...
Back to Top
Clobber View Drop Down
Captain
Captain
Avatar

Joined: 03 January 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8838
Post Options Post Options   Quote Clobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 8:01pm
but Freddie that will balance itself out now that WI have lost to Australia and SA will beat Ireland.

My main objection to the format is that once you get down to the semi finals, they are going to be matches we've already seen in this tournament, ditto the final.


Edited by Clobber - 03 April 2007 at 9:32am
Back to Top
scuudz View Drop Down
Wicket-Keeper
Wicket-Keeper
Avatar

Joined: 12 March 2007
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1754
Post Options Post Options   Quote scuudz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 8:18pm
I agree with Clob.....the carrying two points forward thing is alright because now WI have a tough time in the Super 8s since they dont get to play Ireland but SA do. 
 
As for your objection, Clob, I guess the 1996 format solved that problem but they threw that format out.  What do you think about having the top 8 teams from the four groups going directly into the quarter-finals?
 
If that was used this time around then the quarters would have been:
 
AUS vs BD
SA vs SL
NZ vs IRE
WI vs ENG
 
2 of those QFs would have been completely one-sided so I am thankful that format wasnt used this time.
Back to Top
Migara View Drop Down
3rd Man
3rd Man
Avatar
Wal Bada..soon to be Banda

Joined: 06 March 2007
Location: Sri Lanka
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 161
Post Options Post Options   Quote Migara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2007 at 3:18am

It has to be in three groups

Group A - Austrailia, Pakistan, England, Bermuda, Holland
Group B - South Africa, India, Bangladesh, Ireland, Scotland
Group C - New Zealand, Sri Lanka, West Indies, Zimbabwe, Kenya
 
two winners of each grup will go for a super six. The total number of points will be carried forward.
 
The groups has to be determined like this
 
Southern Nations will be divided in to three groups
Main three asian nations also divided like that
England , Bangladesh and West Indies are divided randomly
Group that has Bangas should egt the strongest minnow team, ireland at the moment. other minnows will be divided randomly.
 
 
 
_____________________________
Who claims me to be Wal bada?
Back to Top
bondy View Drop Down
Middle-Order Batsman
Middle-Order Batsman
Avatar

Joined: 10 December 2006
Location: New Zealand
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4976
Post Options Post Options   Quote bondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2007 at 5:25am
I think current rankings should have an impact on the tournament meaning that teams have an extra incentive to win throughout the years in between.
 
Seedings based on previous tournaments is ludicrous.
 
I think they should use a pool A and pool B structure. Top two teams go through from each pool to the semis and so on. That way with one bad game you aren't knocked out as there would be seven pool games. The way it could be divided is based upon current ICC rankings.
Good one Graham!
Back to Top
Sledger View Drop Down
Captain
Captain
Avatar
Dickenson can marry my mother-in-law !

Joined: 08 August 2005
Location: South Africa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 15694
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2007 at 6:25am
  Before the start of this tournament I didn't see a single grievance concerning the format.  That two fancied sides messed up suddenly has people up in arms saying we need a better system!

   It's simple - either you allow the minnows to play , which means something along the lines we've had this time. A long event (too long in most eyes) with a lot of meaningless mismatches and little opportunity to right a shock result. 
    
    Or get rid of the minnows and play a round robin of the top ten teams with the top four contesting the semifinals.

    My greatest concern is the ICC's inability to find a system where we see the big guns playing in front of sellout crowds - this event has been massively disappointing in that regard.
Mental disintegration works for me !!
Back to Top
scuudz View Drop Down
Wicket-Keeper
Wicket-Keeper
Avatar

Joined: 12 March 2007
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1754
Post Options Post Options   Quote scuudz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2007 at 6:55am
I agree Sledge.  It seems like theres been almost no planning towards the tournament format or attendance at matches.  If the ICC was so worried about losing out on millions of dollars if the asian sides crashed out then they should have thought of a 'financially better' format. 
 
I think the current format is great because this is the WC.  It becomes pretty meaningless if a team should be allowed to recover from 2-3 bad days.  If you have 2-3 bad days during the WC, then you dont deserve the right to be crowned world champion.  Even so, taking India as an example, they lost to BD but they could have still made things right by beating SL which they didn't.  Hence, they deserved to go home.  Its not because of the harshness of the format.  Its because of the poor games India played that they are back home.
Back to Top
wiseguy View Drop Down
Banned
Banned
Avatar

Joined: 16 December 2005
Location: Pakistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2032
Post Options Post Options   Quote wiseguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2007 at 8:30am
I believe its just a lame excuse by Indians and Pakistanis, they were incompetent and they had two bad days not one, and if a team has two bad days out of the three it has to lose and go back.
 
Its just moaning that there was something wrong with the format or the pitch or the condition as everything evens out. I believe this is the best format, infact its very much inclined towards top teams as only two top teams were present in everygroup with every chance to qualify after thrashing the two minnows.
 
Imagine had an open draw was held, for all sixteen teams, what diffrent scenarios could have emerged.


Edited by wiseguy - 03 April 2007 at 8:32am
so far so good!
Back to Top
Mojo View Drop Down
Square Leg
Square Leg
Avatar

Joined: 30 January 2007
Location: South Africa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 369
Post Options Post Options   Quote Mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2007 at 8:31am
I like the Uefa Champions League format. Each team plays the next team in its respective group twice, and then the tournament goes into knockout phase, with the round of 16, then the quarter finals, semi's and then the finals.
 
Of course, in the Cricket World cup, there'd be no round of 16.


Edited by Mojo - 03 April 2007 at 8:32am
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here may not necessarily reflect the opinions of any other forum members. They are the express property of Mojo.
Back to Top
Sledger View Drop Down
Captain
Captain
Avatar
Dickenson can marry my mother-in-law !

Joined: 08 August 2005
Location: South Africa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 15694
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2007 at 8:48am
Originally posted by Mojo

I like the Uefa Champions League format. Each team plays the next team in its respective group twice....


  Comparing apples with pears Mojo . The sole reason they play twice in every stage in football is to take away home advantage - no other reason whatsoever.
 
   The cricket world cup doesn't need to be any longer - it's ridiculous as it is .
Mental disintegration works for me !!
Back to Top
Mojo View Drop Down
Square Leg
Square Leg
Avatar

Joined: 30 January 2007
Location: South Africa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 369
Post Options Post Options   Quote Mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2007 at 8:51am
It won't be made longer, because the first round is the bulk of the tournament. Each team will play six games in the group stages, plus up to 3 games in the knockouts. That's way shorter than the current format.
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here may not necessarily reflect the opinions of any other forum members. They are the express property of Mojo.
Back to Top
Sledger View Drop Down
Captain
Captain
Avatar
Dickenson can marry my mother-in-law !

Joined: 08 August 2005
Location: South Africa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 15694
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2007 at 8:57am
 The round the world yacht race is shorter than the current format !
Mental disintegration works for me !!
Back to Top
Mojo View Drop Down
Square Leg
Square Leg
Avatar

Joined: 30 January 2007
Location: South Africa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 369
Post Options Post Options   Quote Mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2007 at 8:58am
Originally posted by Sledger

 The round the world yacht race is shorter than the current format !
A full Uefa Champions league tournament is longer though...
 
I actually like a long tournament. Means I get to watch more cricket. I know it's not good for the teams and the players, but you won't hear me as a spectator complaining.


Edited by Mojo - 03 April 2007 at 9:01am
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here may not necessarily reflect the opinions of any other forum members. They are the express property of Mojo.
Back to Top
Sledger View Drop Down
Captain
Captain
Avatar
Dickenson can marry my mother-in-law !

Joined: 08 August 2005
Location: South Africa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 15694
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2007 at 9:02am
  You take a lot of my stuff quite literally , don't you.
Mental disintegration works for me !!
Back to Top
Mojo View Drop Down
Square Leg
Square Leg
Avatar

Joined: 30 January 2007
Location: South Africa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 369
Post Options Post Options   Quote Mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2007 at 9:03am
Nah, I knew what you were getting at, just thought I'd throw it in there, since I suggested that idea in the first place.
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here may not necessarily reflect the opinions of any other forum members. They are the express property of Mojo.
Back to Top
Clobber View Drop Down
Captain
Captain
Avatar

Joined: 03 January 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8838
Post Options Post Options   Quote Clobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2007 at 9:36am
Originally posted by scuudz

 
As for your objection, Clob, I guess the 1996 format solved that problem but they threw that format out.  What do you think about having the top 8 teams from the four groups going directly into the quarter-finals?
 


I wouodn't have a problem with that as it would mean after the groups were over every game became massive. It would also get us through the tournament a heck of a lot quicker...though the money men would be wincing at not having so many fatuous games to sell tickets and sponsorship for.


Edited by Clobber - 03 April 2007 at 9:44am
Back to Top
Sledger View Drop Down
Captain
Captain
Avatar
Dickenson can marry my mother-in-law !

Joined: 08 August 2005
Location: South Africa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 15694
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2007 at 9:44am
 Right Clobs , the knockout format in any sport is more exciting and viewing figures show that. Unfortunately that means less games , shorter tournament and less dosh - not to mention that the fat cats that run the sport have a shorter holiday!
Mental disintegration works for me !!
Back to Top
daisy77 View Drop Down
Opener
Opener
Avatar
Lara Fan

Joined: 05 December 2005
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2488
Post Options Post Options   Quote daisy77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2007 at 12:13am
The current format is just fine. In fact it's great to put the senior teams to the test and see the lowly ranked teams fight for a place in the other round. I am sure that a lot of people are disappointed with India and Pakistan's performances in the world cup but you cannot blame the format because they didn't make it to the other round. If you just had the top 8 teams playing in the world cup then a fair chance would not be given to the other teams to allow them an opportunity to play. Isn't this what we all want to see the wonderful game that we all love be loved by other people all over the world too??? Could you imagine how much more popular cricket is in Ireland since they made it to the super8s????
Back to Top
wiseguy View Drop Down
Banned
Banned
Avatar

Joined: 16 December 2005
Location: Pakistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2032
Post Options Post Options   Quote wiseguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2007 at 5:41am
I dont see much problems with the current format, 16 teams is a good enough start, otherwise you will have further confinement of already confined game! Usually problem comes in the super 8's as the surprises are lesser and lessr, top teams usuallly play really good against any minnows that have qualified, and its very much a one sided affair.
 
But to be fair this is the least honour they deserve after having qualified into the super 8's, if you go back to quater finals, they will get only one match before a likely elimination. Bangladesh might get to play a few better teams once in five years, but imagine Ireland, they could never have imagined playing top teams in next ten years or so. So rpobably there are enough good reasons to have the similar format continued, though as spectators we usually have not much interest in the matches involving minnows but I believe in some time these teams will be competitive consistantly!
 
Infact the scenario again reminds me my thought on relegation of two teams out of the top eight into the second league after the world cup for next four years and elevation of two qualified teams into the eight test teams. I hope we have high prize for losing and winning in the group stages!


Edited by wiseguy - 05 April 2007 at 5:46am
so far so good!
Back to Top
Roscoe View Drop Down
Extra Cover
Extra Cover
Avatar

Joined: 09 January 2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 501
Post Options Post Options   Quote Roscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2007 at 2:01pm
I like the modified McIntyre system that the AFL uses. The top four teams are rewarded with a second chance if they lose, but apart from that it's all knockout. The post-group stage would all be over in 2 or 3 weeks, and Bob's your uncle.

Round 1:
1 v 4, 2 v 3,  5 v 8, 6 v 7 --> Two lowest ranked losers get eliminated, two highest ranked winners get a bye
Round 2:
Semi-finals amongst the bottom 4 teams of the remaining 6, the two losers being eliminated
Round 3:
Preliminary Finals
Round 4:
Grand Final


Edited by Roscoe - 05 April 2007 at 2:05pm
It's a long way to the shop, if you want a sausage roll.
Back to Top
bondy View Drop Down
Middle-Order Batsman
Middle-Order Batsman
Avatar

Joined: 10 December 2006
Location: New Zealand
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4976
Post Options Post Options   Quote bondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2007 at 12:22am
I think where just complaining for the sake of complaining. If the tournament had been shorter, say a knockout format, them i'm sure we would be up arms to some extent.
 
For example, if the recent game between SA and Bangladesh had been a knockout then we would all we complaining about the tournament format. SA deserve a shot at the WC as they have earned their number one status, well former now, through constant performances.
 
The problem being with the knockout is that 8 times out of 10 SA will beat Bangladesh.
 
I think the format is okay, its just a little upsetting that Pakistan and India had to exit the way they did. There are other formats that could be used, as mentioned in this forum. However my point is that where complaining for the sake of complaining, its human nature to do so.
 
As the age old saying goes, when its summer its too hot, when its winter its too cold. Can't win can we.
Good one Graham!
Back to Top
gambler View Drop Down
3rd Man
3rd Man


Joined: 15 April 2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 232
Post Options Post Options   Quote gambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2007 at 3:49pm
I dont see much wrong with the current format. Nothing is perfect. 16 teams is fine as far as I'm concerned and having the top 8 teams all playing each other is the fairest way to go.
 
Yeah, perhaps the tournament is a little bit too long...but what the hell, its only once every 4 years. Its better than watching the same 2 teams playing some meaningless 7 match ODI series.
Back to Top
Freddie View Drop Down
Wicket-Keeper
Wicket-Keeper
Avatar
That's the wrong ball you're hitting

Joined: 17 September 2006
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1054
Post Options Post Options   Quote Freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2007 at 7:58pm

I have thought up a new format for the World Cup which I would personally use in the sub-continent in 4 years time. I hope you would like it.

In the next competition have the 6 normal qualifiers from the ICC Trophy and have them play in a preliminary group stage a couple of weeks before the main action starts (in place of the warm-up games). Play it in two group stages (1st, 3rd and 5th/2nd, 4th and 6th) and the winners of both the group stages go forward to play in the World Cup proper to join the top the cricketing countries.
 
Then for the group stages split the teams into 3 groups of 4 (1st, 4th, 7th 10th/2nd, 5th, 8th, 11th/3rd, 6th, 9th, 12) and have them play each other twice so as to try to avoid what happened in this tournament (Ireland and Bangladesh qualifying ahead of Pakistan and India). Then the top 2 teams from each group go through along with the top 2 3rd place teams from the group stages combined so you are left with 8 teams.
 
Then there are the quarter-finals (1st A V 2nd B, 2nd A V 1st C, 1st B V 3rd Q1, 2nd C V 3rd Q2), making sure you get no repeat of the group stage, then in the semi-finals (W1 V W4, W2 V W3) the winners progress into the final and just like in football you have a 3rd place match between the two losing semi-finalists, before the two winning semi-finalists play each other in the final.
 
What do you think?
On extended leave...
Back to Top
Sim Dog View Drop Down
Short Leg
Short Leg
Avatar

Joined: 27 December 2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 71
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sim Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2007 at 1:46pm
I think it was fine in 99 in terms of format and the amount of teams invited. Just the good teams and then super sixes stage. The current format has too many hopeless teams leading to a lot of rubbish, uncompetitive matches which take to long to complete. Invite these teams to the ICC trophy. Leave them out of the World Cup.


Edited by Sim Dog - 01 May 2007 at 1:48pm
Back to Top
IbiZZle View Drop Down
3rd Man
3rd Man
Avatar

Joined: 09 October 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 123
Post Options Post Options   Quote IbiZZle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2007 at 7:31pm
I think they should definitely include the minnows in the World Cups.
It is beneficial for the growth of the sport.  Next time, they should have 4 groups of five nations totalling into 20 nations. With all the top 12 ODI-nations and the next 8 coming from the Associate members table. Top 2 from each group gets to play in the Uber 8's. For those who want a smaller tournament then skip right over to the Quarter-finals.
Should take one month to have a winner.

!~Where Ever You Go, There You Are~!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.71
Copyright ©2001-2011 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.751 seconds.