Gilchrist - greatest wicket keeper batsman?

Sanga is wonderful as captain, batsmen or keeper. Hes not keeping now? great for cricket I think. And dont those sri lankan batsmen score huge centuries? I like Haddin as a batsmen/keeper though. Not the greatest glovemen but his batting is worth watching.

Originally posted by milkman Oh no, I don't think he's bad and I did not say that. I basically made the point that Jayawardene is better and that if Kumar was THAT great a keeper he would have stuck to it.

i think jayawardena picked in test team because sri lanka want to sangakkara to be specialist batsman.....since he left the job as a keeper he improve his batting...

Haddin can bat quite well, he gets a lot of starts, but doesn't always get on with it. He can also bat anywhere in ODIs. I think though Dhoni is more of a matchwinner, however he hasn't got a test ton in a long while which is surprising to me. I think he only has 1 from memory. With the gloves, Haddin has disappointed me at times, but he has also done some good things. Dhoni isn't too flash, but I think at the moment he's showing better skills than Haddin.
Boucher at his best would probably be the best of the lot, but he hasn't done a lot of late with the bat and he has been disappointing.

And he can bat too!

Oh no, I don't think he's bad and I did not say that. I basically made the point that Jayawardene is better and that if Kumar was THAT great a keeper he would have stuck to it.

Don Tallon could bat. He was a decent 1st class cricket, averaged about 30. Test cricket was very tricky in those days when batting, especially with uncovered pitches and unregulated laws pertaining to bowling actions.  Furthermore, little protective equipment meant lower order batsman were not very competent at all, it's really only a recent phenomena that no 10s can bat reasonably well - due a lot to the confidence the protective equipment gives.

Having a highest score of 92 batting at 11 has to be some sort of a record then

No , Don Tallon played in the late 40s and early-mid 50s....

I think if Sanga was the greatest WK/Batsman then he would still be keeping in test cricket. Otherwise we have to make a distinction between keeper/batsman and batsman/keeper. Wicket keeping in the past was much like goal keeping in football/soccer, in that it was a very specialised role. Now this is not as much the case and there is a greater emphasis on the keeper being an all rounder. Wally Grout was a fantastic keeper for Australia in the 50s, but he averaged something like 16 or 17 with the bat and batted right in the tail end. Then you get a bloke like Andy Flower in the 90s averaging 50 with the bat and carrying the batting line up.

All these players that have been mentioned are different sorts of players. Rod Marsh, Knott and Healy were the finest keepers I've seen, although the former two I did not see as much, only in replay footage, as they were a bit before my time. But I saw a lot of Healy, and his keeping was marvellous. Whether he was keeping to Warne or the big-spinning MacGill or to guys like Jason Gillespie who was genuinely fast in his youth. He wasn't a bad batsman either, 3 test tons and an average of 30 is nothing to be ashamed of.  But he certainly isn't the best BATSMAN/wicket-keeper.
Knott as well also had some fairly tricky, and 'quick' spin bowlers to keep up to the stumps to, and of course a lot of pacers. Like Healy and Marsh, the keepers back then did not use helmets either.

I personally would rule out Sanga for the simple fact that he has pretty much stopped keeping in test cricket , and the fact that Jayawardene has shown that his keeping is better than Sanga's.

For mine, in terms of Batting/Keepers it's Gilchrist and then Flower. My reason is that I think Gilchrist is more of a match winner and has more fluid batting, in that he commits to his strokes and has remarkable timing. I also think Gilchrist's keeping was stronger than that of Flower's and was tested more, as the quality of the Australian bowling and the variety of the Australian bowling was greater. But Flower is a very close second nonetheless, and carried his nation with great honour and heart. He made Zimbabwe competitive, along with guys like Heath Streak, Neil Johnson and Grant Flower.

In terms of Keeper/Batsman, I'd probably say Alan Knott. This is mostly due to the footage I've seen and the literature I've read. He had a great rival at the time he played in Rodney Marsh, and Rod Marsh started a nice trend for the Australian keeping scene - a bloke who can keep proficiently and play as a dasher down the order. Always a fan of Healy too, and I think Mark Boucher, at his prime, is a very compact keeper with a proven track record.



Edited by milkman - 26 May 2009 at 5:14am

Originally posted by cricketluva If you guys have watched enough cricket then you will realise that both Flower and Sangakkara lacked tremendously with the gloves. When I think of Kumar's keeping I always think back to the 2003 world cup game against the Aussies where he missed about two stumpings and dropped a catch. His keeping is not test class, and I'm afraid Flower's was barely either. In terms of effectiveness with the bat, they are all pretty equal - and statiscally there is nothing in it. But, as said above, Gilchrist had this X factor and could easily take the game away from the opposition in a session - something FLower definately didn't do and not something we always see from Kumar.   Moreover, you can argue that Gilly and Kumar had to keep to Warne and Murali respectively... and Adam did a fantastic job, while Sangarkkara was up and down... Andy Flower did not really have to keep to a difficult spinner.   Additionally, the fact that both Kumar and Andy Flower gave up the gloves at some stage in their respective careers, as did Alec Stewart - while Gilly never did (only in the early part of his ODI career did he just bat, but this was because of Healy keeping in the side).   The best Keeper/Batsman all rounder in history is certainly Gilchrist. I am not saying this as an Australian, but as a cricket lover and my reasons are very clearly stated.

Gilly is one of da greatest cricketers of all time.... but i hv to tell you something...in that world cup game sanga missed couple of chances...thatz what happen in game of cricket isn't it?...any great  crickerter hv thier bad day....even gilly....gilly have the ability to power the inning and take the game away from any other team in no time....and sanga have the ability to face the inning and put his team on good position...and thats what happend in IPL 2009 recently ....and dont forget  in that tornament sanga have won 3 or 4 time man of the match for his performance....i recon that both players are match winning players....

Wasn't that great in the last two years of his career, but he revolutionised the role of a WK throughout his career which deserves a large amount of credit. Also, his unselfish attitude is second to none in modern day cricket.

Yeah, outstanding batsman and outstanding wicketkeeper in one package.

You're right there yes.aravind (??), Flower must be considered under the same bracket and in my opinion he was an even better test match batsman than Gilly.

Okay I agree that Gilly is a wonderful

Originally posted by cricketluva If you guys have watched enough cricket then you will realise that both Flower and Sangakkara lacked tremendously with the gloves. When I think of Kumar's keeping I always think back to the 2003 world cup game against the Aussies where he missed about two stumpings and dropped a catch. His keeping is not test class, and I'm afraid Flower's was barely either. In terms of effectiveness with the bat, they are all pretty equal - and statiscally there is nothing in it. But, as said above, Gilchrist had this X factor and could easily take the game away from the opposition in a session - something FLower definately didn't do and not something we always see from Kumar.   Moreover, you can argue that Gilly and Kumar had to keep to Warne and Murali respectively... and Adam did a fantastic job, while Sangarkkara was up and down... Andy Flower did not really have to keep to a difficult spinner.   Additionally, the fact that both Kumar and Andy Flower gave up the gloves at some stage in their respective careers, as did Alec Stewart - while Gilly never did (only in the early part of his ODI career did he just bat, but this was because of Healy keeping in the side).   The best Keeper/Batsman all rounder in history is certainly Gilchrist. I am not saying this as an Australian, but as a cricket lover and my reasons are very clearly stated.

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