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Sledger View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 April 2009 at 7:08am
Originally posted by zuhair_abbasi

I heard Neil Johnson was also a south african by birth. Is it true?


 No zuhair , born in Salisbury (now Harare). He played a lot of cricket in SA , here for Western Province. He still lives here.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote milkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 7:14am
Yerp, pretty sure he left cricket because his missus wanted to stay put in RSA... bloody women!!!

Johno was a very good ODI all rounder, didn't show his full talent in tests though. That 130 odd against McGrath, Warne and co at the 99 WC sticks to my memory.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zuhair_abbasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 7:20am
Whole of that 99 WC sticks to mine
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Post Options Post Options   Quote milkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 7:22am
Yerp, especially Pakistan crumbling to Warne in the final for 132
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zuhair_abbasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 7:54am
Cant recall that.when was that? zz
 
But I did enjoy that tournament. More so that Pakistan played great cricket then. And we had a team to be proud of. Full of super stars.Miss those days of Saeed, Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain,Moin, Razzaq, salim all in the same team!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote milkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 8:02am
They had the best team back then, such a strong side. Wasim and Waqar opening the attack, Shoaib bowling at his fastest, Saqlain and Mushtaq Ahmed spinning. Ijaz, Inzamam and Saeed Anwar at the top of the order and Moin keeping wicket. And the 2 all rounders Azhar and Mahmood + Shahid Afridi.  Top team.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zuhair_abbasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 8:11am
We probably had the best team for most of that decade of 90's, untill Steve waugh's Australia claimed that spot.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote milkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 11:15am
I reckon Sri Lanka were a pretty balanced team as well, they had a hell of a lot of success. South Africa were always neck to neck with Australia at the end of the 90s, and they were fantastic when they first got international status back as well, great fielding played a huge part in their success.
I dare say that Pakistan had a might well balanced side, good opener (e.g. Anwar), good middle order batsmen (e.g. Miandad til 96, Inzy), good keepers (Latif and Moin) and the best pace attack + throw in the spin combo of Saqlain and Mushtaq Ahmed.
Australia had a nice rounded side too, Mark Waugh (one of the best ODI openers), Michael Bevan, Stephen Waugh + a bowling attack of McGrath, Warne and Fleming. Not so shabby either!?
I miss those days, some fantastic players. I ask you guys to look up on youtube "Gilchrist getting out to Wasim" in the opening part of the 99 WC. That's what I call fast bowling.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zuhair_abbasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 11:38am
That was really fantastic. Wasim was superb in that game I remember. Pak,Ause and SAF were undoubtedly the three teams to watch in the 90s.
 
Australia was damn good but that started happening in mid-late 90s.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote milkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 11:50am
Australia was never a top ODI til the end of the 90s, I'll definitely concede that fact. We were certainly beatable. Sri Lanka was very, very innovative and they had a lot of success and India played a hell of a lot of ODI cricket too, but without Sachin they were nothing.
SAF had about 4 or 5 all rounders in their side and batted til about 10 and had about 7 bowling options + brilliant fielders.
AUS had great balance, and it wasn't until they got rid of Taylor and Healy til they really blossomed.
PAK always had great balance, batting was not a massive strength but their bowling was out of this world.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zuhair_abbasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 11:54am
Agree completely. England in the 90s was the most rubbish side. even the Zimbabwe were better. India was just average. batsmen those days used to average much les than what they do today. Only greats in those days would average 50plus in tests or 40 plu sin ODIs. But with quality bowlers fadig quickly, these stats about the modern day basmen dont tell the true story.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote milkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 12:38pm
Yer, you can't even compare stats from now with the 90s. Steve Waugh averaged 32 and made 3 tons in 300 odd games, but he was always considered good enough.
England was a bit of a sham in ODIs, although they won in 92.
NZ was always competitive, guys like Chris Harris, Chris Cairns, and the like always did well.
Zimbabwe was a very, very athletic side, with a great fielding unit and it made up for its somewhat average talent with effort and a strong lower order. Although they never once beat Australia in the 90s.
Windies weren't too flash either, probably in the same category as England.
The 90s were dominated by Pakistan, SAF, Aust, SL and India in ODIs... but Australia and Pakistan were always the best to watch in my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by milkman

England was a bit of a sham in ODIs, although they won in 92. 


 Really?  I must've missed that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kirankri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 1:19pm
I guess, he is talking about few matches won Sledge.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote milkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by Sledger

Originally posted by milkman

England was a bit of a sham in ODIs, although they won in 92. 


 Really?  I must've missed that.


Meant to say they got to the final ahahahah... Jeez, England winning something? Sorry I must have been juiced up on something at the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 1:32pm
Been in three finals matey ! '92 hurts because England were the best side by a country mile. Miandad's escape when plumb in front cost the match. Not to mention their "get-out-of-jail" when skittled for next to nothing against England in the round robin stage.  Bloody rain.....

    
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Post Options Post Options   Quote milkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 1:34pm
The rain didn't help the South Africans in that tournament either.
ODI cricket pretty much went down hill for England after that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zuhair_abbasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 1:52pm
Yes true that. England were the better side then. But I guess even then they lacked the spark. Miandad's wicket was crucial. Pakistan were on 5 points after 6 matches and certainly did not deserve to be in the finals, but that one point in the match against england where we were all out for 74, counted inthe end. Aussies also helped us a great deal by beating Windies.
 
I was watching highlights of the 92 WC match between Aus and Pak. There were 3 horrible run out decisions in that match. Por Inzi was miles home when umpire judged himout. Glad that we have 3rd umpires now.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 2:10pm
Interestingly Jonty's flying swan run out of Inzamam also wasn't out zuhair!

  One of the most famous instances in WC history was an umpiring error - funny huh.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sledger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by milkman

The rain didn't help the South Africans in that tournament either.


  No sympathy whatsoever for the South Africans in that semifinal. They only sent down 45 overs in their allotted time - Wessels had no answer to Hick and Fairbrother and just used the rules to suit his team. The rain was divine intervention !

Originally posted by milkman

ODI cricket pretty much went down hill for England after that.


 Too true - they've been nowhere since. I don't count the win in Sharjah under Hollioake - mickey mouse competition!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote milkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 2:24pm
England's obsession with having an all rounder killed them. Imagine if they played proper players instead of guys like Mark Ealham, Ronnie Irani, Adam and Ben (God rest him) Hollioake...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kirankri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 2:31pm
But they had a genuine all-rounder Ian Botham in the 92 WC.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote milkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2009 at 2:33pm
That's my point, after 92 they crumbled....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zuhair_abbasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2009 at 4:56am
Ian Botham in 92 was just dragging himself. He was nowhere near his good days - forget the best. Imran was also in the same league, he just played that to lead the side. his bowling was quite average.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote milkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2009 at 5:13am
Yer all those great all rounders left around the same time, Kapil Dev, Ian Botham, Richard Hadlee and Imran Khan.
I don't think cricket has been the same since.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zuhair_abbasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2009 at 5:26am
I guess Kapil went on to play a couple of more years just to chase some world record. He was completely useless in the 90s but just went on to play so many more test matches than he actually deserved to, just to get that record.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote spin wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2009 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by Milkman

Yer all those great all rounders left around the same time, Kapil Dev, Ian Botham, Richard Hadlee and Imran Khan.
I don't think cricket has been the same since.
 
Well, since then, we have had 3 top all rounders in Kallis, Pollock and Flintoff.  Shame Kallis doesn't show more interest in "fast" bowling anymore and focusing more on his batting.  Freddie is healing as much as playing and Pollock, well, since he dropped his pace, he's been less effective but still 3 top class all rounders.  Everyone has a moment in their career when their brilliance fades.  Lara played with the same brutality through out his career but his ODI form was poor in his last few years.  Tendulkar doesn't beat ball with as much disdain as he use to.  Viv Richards and Clive Lloyd didn't average as much in their older days.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote milkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2009 at 3:31pm
Pollock was a good all rounder, but nowhere near as good as Kallis. Kallis would have been a better all rounder had he played less cricket. Too much cricket takes a big toll on these all rounders.
Botham had something like 25 5-fors, Flintoff has about 3. Botham also scored about 14 or 15 tons, and Flintoff has about 3 or 4. I don't like to look into stats too much, but Botham was certainly more of a match-winner.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote milkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2009 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by Sledger

Flower's up there as Zimbabwe's finest player - not bad for someone born in Cape Town !

His brother Grant was born in Salisbury. Probably explains why he averaged 20 runs less per innings than Andy!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote spin wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2009 at 4:03pm
True.  What Freddie gives you is very good too.  Sheer consistancy with the ball so you know you have one bowler who will take his 3 odd wickets per game with good economy rate.  Pollock was fine player.  I remember him coming at 3 against Pakistan couple years ago and scoring 80 odd not out.  That innings had shots of a top class batsman.  Still, Kallis is the best of the lot for me.
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